8th Ed. Blowpipes, Javelin, Quick to fire

[gapton]

Hello all,

I am a bit confused about the rules of blowpipes javeline and quick to fire.

Firstly here is what I understand:
Javeline:
Quick to fire
12"
Strength : depends on user
Jungle poison

Blowpipe:
**NOT quick to fire**
2x multiple shots
Strength always 3
12"
Jungle poison

My understanding to quick to fire:
you can move and shoot with no -1 penalty
you can always stand and shoot with no -1 penalty



HOWEVER, in the BRB, I cannot find any indication that javelin or blowpipe does not suffer the long range penalty.

So, is it correct that, when shooting at long range ( 6+ inches ) , javelin and blowpipe both suffers a -1 long range penalty?

So in most situations:
The blow pipe will hit on 4+, -1 for moving, -1 for long range, making it requiring 6+ to hit
So double tapping always starts at 5+, you better move and shoot in short range, or don't move at all and shoot at long range......
Since the blowpipe is only available in Skirmishers Skinks, they can always march and shoot (with -1 penalty since blowpipe is not quick to fire)

that's pretty bad lol

For Javeline, it goes as follow:
starting at 4+, long range makes it 5+
Skirmisher making it able to march and fire, march 12 inches, shooting anything within 6" is 4+, 6"+ then its 5+, plus direct wound due to Jungle poison


Is it just me or is blowpipe completely worthless.....?

The only situation that may be good is when a group of 20 skirmisher skinks get charged within 6" they can stand and shoot and double tap, thus throwing 40 D6 , all 6 will be a direct wound

If they get charged further than 6" then you only get 20 D6 with all 6 being direct wounds......

1 point for javeline and shield is a no brainer...........?

 

[Arli]

Blowpipes are not quick to fire. The confusion stems from the picture on the page in the BRB that has the quick to fire rule on it. There is a picture on the page of a skink with a blowpipe. However, blowpipes are not quick to fire.

Further, blowpipes and javelins do both suffer from long range penalties. In some instances, I will agree with you that blowpipes can be useless. That would be when you are at long range after moving (-3 when double tapping). Add in shooting through an obstacle and you are now hitting on 7s (at least). Not an optimal situation. In that situation, you will be forced to single tap. That will bring back to 6s (for poison).

In 8th edition, I usually shy away from blowpipe skirmishers in favor of javelin and shield for those reason alone. I also like the ability to always stand and shoot (javelins) and the small concilation that I get a parry save in combat.

Now, I do include chameleons in every lizardmen army that I take. The chameleon is the best answer to the above problem with blowpipes. Because they are BS 4, they can still double tap at long range on 6s. This is why they are arguably the best scouts in the game (along with the additional -1 to hit them).

 

[gapton]

Thanks for the answer, however after reading up a bit I have two more questions....

Stand and Shoot -1 and Long Rage -1 penalties
Can they be applied at the same time?
While a unit is being charged, do you still calculate the range as normal? I do know that the unit is allowed to shoot even if the charging unit is further than the weapon's maximum range. However in the BRB it says it is assumed that the weapon is fired at its maximum range.

So is it possible that you will get -1 for stand and shoot plus another -1 for shooting at long range?
Or do we ignore long range penalty when doing stand and shoot?

Second question is how many Skirmisher Skinks can fire during normal shooting phase?

I am assuming that Skirmishers can all fire at once, provided they are individually within range, is that correct?

 

[Arli]

Yes, both the long range -1 and the charging -1 do apply. You always shoot at the maximum range. It would be cool if you could do a leadership test to fire at short range.

Also, when firing, skirmishers can fire in two rows. All skirmishers in range can fire.

 

[n810]

All this is true, but consider it's typically only the 6' that ever wound anything.

 

[gapton]

Finally, when enemy charge from 6" or less? Do we still apply the -1 long range penalty?

 

[Gor-rok]

Finally, when enemy charge from 6" or less? Do we still apply the -1 long range penalty?

No. You only shoot at -1 long range if they start their charge at or outside the long range of your weapon.

The 7th paragraph on pg. 17 of the big rulebook just states that you can stand and shoot at opponents that charge from beyond the range of your weapon. Those shots will be made at long range. If they start in short range (assuming they are beyond their normal movement distance, or you're quick to fire) then the only penalty is the -1 stand and shoot.