8th Ed. BoR

[Bish]

So unmodified Ld. BSB reroll? Skaven strength in numbers?

Samuel

 

[n810]

Un-modified is the LD number on their stat line in the book.
no more, no less.

 

[Bish]

FAQ says the unmodified Ld is the highest unmodified Ld value in the unit. Then the skaven FA says that strength in numbers can add the rank bonus to the Ld value.

Samuel

 

[rychek]

The key is the word "unmodified". If the highest value (as it is written on the army sheet) is added to or subtracted from, it is no longer "unmodified". Thus whatever is written is the value used.

 

[newscales]

does the person being stuck by the BoR have the benefit of the reroll from the BSB?

 

[rychek]

Yes. The rules for BoR state the "victim" must take a Leadership test for each hit. The BRB states that Hold Your Ground allows friendly models to re-roll "failed Leadership tests of any kind". That seems to be pretty clear.

Blade says take leadership test on "victim's own, unmodified" leadership. BSB says re-roll failed leadership tests.

 

[rychek]

Something of note here is that it says "victim" instead of "Unit" or "Model". I'm inclined to believe victim is synonymous with model, but the meaning of the word changes things. If it means model, then the Ld value of a general or higher Ld model in the same unit would not apply when taking the Ld test. If the victim means unit, then a higher Ld value or general would apply. Thoughts?

 

[newscales]

when in a challenge, you can attack rider or mouth separate, so I can see that having benefit as far as victim goes. monster and handler special rule would muddle things up too as far as model vs unit for "victim" applications.

 

[skillfull_dan]

I'm inclined to believe victim is synonymous with model, but the meaning of the word changes things. If it means model, then the Ld value of a general or higher Ld model in the same unit would not apply when taking the Ld test.

False

The term GW uses is "unmodified leadership", however it is a misnomer. The definition of "unmodified leadership" from the FAQ is...

A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership characteristic in the unit. So the Leadership from any characters in the unit itself (but not from outside the unit, from Inspiring Presence for example) with a higher Leadership can be used unless specifically stated otherwise.

So unmodified leadership is by definition modified leadership without inpiring presence. It is NOT defined as the models leadership as written in the army book.

This means that even though a *model* is taking the test, he can use the leadership of the highest leadership model in his unit.

The onlything that i've heard debated on this is whether or not spells like iceshard blizzard, doom and darkness, and all sorts of slaaneshi nonsense affect unmodified leadership. I play that they do affect unmodified leadership because that seems to follow both the spirit and definition of unmodified leadership.

 

[rychek]

Either way it's poor wording. Hopefully they will clear it up in the next release (by rewriting or removing, I don't know).

 

[Stonecutter]

Either way it's poor wording. Hopefully they will clear it up in the next release (by rewriting or removing, I don't know).

It was actually clearer in an earlier FAQ that had words to the effect that unmodified LD was just that, unmodified and detailed several examples (doom & darkness, magic banners, strength in numbers, etc.) that did not apply. Unfortunately, the latest FAQ removed this and actually made the issue more muddled!!

 

[n810]

Well that was definately different from the early FAQ's.

Ps. kill the Character/BSB first.