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Can someone in the UK give me context for what is going on? (Political)

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Scalenex, Aug 2, 2024.

  1. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    The CCP is clearly on the decline right now. I expect they will be defunct within 20 years.

    That doesn't means that mainland China is going to magically turn into a freedom loving modern democracy like Taiwan. But it does mean they aren't going to take over as the new global superpwer.

    Unfortunately, I'm guessing they will turn into something akin to how the USSR became modern Russia with a Putin at the helm is a weaker power. And the new China will be a threatening presence in East Asia much like Putin is threatening Eastern Europe now. But again, not a global super power.
     
  2. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Whatever helps you sleep better at night. ;)
     
  3. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    If I were a betting man, I would say the next global superpower will be India.

    If you go by China's official census, India has the largest population in the world by a tiny margin. If you by China's actual population, India has lots more people.

    A large percentage of India's population is in the 25 to 45 age range. That is the economic powerhouse of any nation. India's rate of education is relatively high and growing. In the short-term, having a high number of fluent English speakers will be a boon in trade and politics.

    India's birthrate is not declining as much as the rest of the world, but they also aren't drowning in more babies than they can handle.

    Right now, India tries to be neutral in global conflicts, but I think if they had a stronger military, they could throw their political weight around more.

    India's military is modernizing very quickly (they have to deal with the PLA and Pakistan saber rattling at them), and they are taking concrete steps to build up their native military industrial complex so they are less beholden to buying military hardware from other countries.

    India is not a utopia, they certainly have their share of problems like all countries do. Still, out of all the BRICS countries, they are arguably the least hamstrung by internal problems of all of them (though Brazil would be my second best guess for the next global superpower).

    But what are the odds of a former British colony growing to be a superpower twice in a row?
     
  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Clearly you say?

    Let's bring in my pal, ChatGPT (yes I know that it can make errors, but so can humans).

    My prompt:
    Is China, as a potential superpower, on the rise or decline?

    ChatGPT's response:

    China’s trajectory as a potential superpower is complex, and whether it is “on the rise or decline” depends heavily on which factors you prioritize—economic, military, technological, demographic, or geopolitical. Let’s break it down systematically:

    1. Economic Factors
    • Rise: China remains the world’s second-largest economy, with a huge manufacturing base, major export strength, and growing technological capabilities. Belt and Road Initiative investments expand its global influence.

    • Challenges: Economic growth is slowing. Debt levels, real estate instability, and declining productivity growth are significant concerns. Demographic pressures (aging population, shrinking workforce) may constrain long-term growth.
    Verdict: Rising in absolute size and global influence, but growth rate is slowing, making sustainability uncertain.

    2. Military Power
    • Rise: China has modernized its military rapidly—expanding its navy, missile capabilities, and cyber/space operations. It can project power regionally (South China Sea, Taiwan) and potentially globally in the next decade.

    • Challenges: While regional strength is impressive, global expeditionary capability still lags behind the U.S. Some technologies are still catching up, and strategic logistics for long-range operations are complex.
    Verdict: Strong regional rise; global projection still developing.

    3. Technological Capabilities
    • Rise: China leads in certain areas (5G, renewable energy, AI research, high-speed rail, some quantum tech). It is investing heavily in self-reliance due to geopolitical tensions.

    • Challenges: Reliant on foreign semiconductors and advanced chips, which limits cutting-edge tech independence. Export controls by the U.S. and allies slow some progress.
    Verdict: Rapid rise, but bottlenecks remain in high-end tech.

    4. Geopolitical Influence
    • Rise: China exerts influence via trade, loans, diplomacy, and soft power projects (media, Confucius Institutes). Growing role in international institutions.

    • Challenges: Tensions with U.S., EU, India, and neighbors could isolate it. Hard power projection is mostly regional, and aggressive posture (Taiwan, South China Sea) may provoke pushback.
    Verdict: Rising influence globally, but strategic overreach could provoke resistance.

    5. Demographics and Internal Stability
    • Challenges: Aging population, declining birth rates, and potential social unrest threaten long-term sustainability. Rising inequality and environmental degradation also pose risks.

    • No clear rise: These factors are structural headwinds that could slow or even reverse gains.
    Overall Assessment
    • Short-to-medium term (next 10–20 years): China is still on the rise—economically, militarily, and technologically—albeit with slowing growth and increasing geopolitical friction.

    • Long-term (30+ years): Structural challenges (demographics, debt, environmental limits) and geopolitical pushback may limit superpower status or even trigger relative decline if not managed.
    Bottom line: China is rising, but the pace is slowing, and its trajectory is fragile. Unlike the U.S., which has structural advantages in demography, alliances, and innovation, China’s ascent faces more internal and external constraints.
     
  5. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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  6. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    A strong contender.

    My prompt:
    Hypothetically, if the USA were to fall as the world's superpower in the next 10-20 years, compile a list (with percent chance) of the most likely countries to become the next global superpower.

    ChatGPT's response:

    Got it. Let’s think through this carefully. I’ll base the assessment on a combination of economic size, military capability, technological innovation, geopolitical influence, population, natural resources, and strategic position—the key elements that historically define a global superpower. I’ll assign rough probabilities, keeping in mind this is speculative.

    Most Likely Contenders to Become the Next Global Superpower (if the USA declines in 10–20 years)
    Rank Country Approx. Chance Notes

    1 China 40% Already the closest rival; massive population, economic growth, technological advancements, and military expansion. Challenges: debt, aging population, environmental issues, internal unrest.

    2 India 20% Huge population (soon to surpass China), fast-growing economy, emerging tech and defense sectors. Challenges: infrastructure gaps, political fragmentation, social inequality, regional tensions.

    3 European Union (as a bloc) 15% Economic strength and technological base are significant, but fragmented political decision-making and slow defense integration weaken global projection. Could emerge as a “collective superpower.”

    4 Russia 10% Strong military, nuclear arsenal, energy exports. Limitations: economic stagnation, demographic decline, over-reliance on hydrocarbons, limited global soft power.

    5 Brazil 5% Resource-rich, large population, regional dominance in South America. Challenges: political instability, infrastructure gaps, economic volatility.

    6 Japan 4% Advanced technology, strong economy, strategic alliances (esp. with USA). Limitations: small population, limited military autonomy, geographic constraints.

    7 Indonesia 3% Emerging economic giant in Southeast Asia, young and growing population, strategic maritime location. Challenges: infrastructure, governance, regional competition.

    8 United Kingdom 2% Global financial hub, soft power, strategic alliances. Limited by size, demographics, and military constraints.

    9 Turkey 1% Regional military power, bridging Europe and Asia, growing economy. Limitations: domestic politics, economic instability, limited global influence.

    Observations:

    • China is the clear frontrunner, but the path isn’t guaranteed; internal pressures could slow its rise.

    • India has high long-term potential because of demographics and IT/innovation capacity.

    • The EU could collectively act as a superpower, but only if political cohesion strengthens.

    • Countries like Brazil, Indonesia, Japan, Turkey are more “regional to global aspirants” rather than full global superpowers.
     
  7. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Not important, but clearly Chat GPT takes CCP propaganda articles as fact. India isn't soon to surpass China in population. It passed them years ago.
     
  8. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That's true.

    upload_2025-8-26_22-34-17.png


    What major gripe do you have with the information presented, besides the slightly out of date population data (negligible effect on the analysis)?

    India might overtake China as a superpower candidate (we can speculate), but as of today it's still China in the lead by a pretty substantial margin. China's economy is larger. China's military is stronger. China's technological innovation sector is greater. If the USA disappeared today, China would be king (at least for the time being). The further we go into the future, the less accurate our predictions become.

    With all due respect, I think you're a little too close to the situation. Your hatred/dislike/opposition blinds you.
     
  9. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    CCP officials lie about their GDP all the time. They also lie about every other statistic.

    During Covid, they lied about the number of deaths.

    Local provinces have a maximum quota of deaths by suicide, murder, or accidents they are allowed to report on. It's noticeable that after local provinces hit this number, the number of deaths in these categories drops to zero.

    For the last 10+ years, they have lied about the number of births.

    They have underreported emigration (Chinese leaving).

    Ordinary people have a limit on how many of certain properties they can buy, so a lot of Chinese people have fake identities (usually from real people who happen to be dead) to buy more properties.

    A lot of Chinese people pretend their dead parents are alive, so they can collect their parent's (admittedly modest) pension.

    The national party collects all the tax money and doles it out to the provinces. Hospitals get money based on births. Schools get money based on students, etc. This means the province level government has a huge incentive to overstate their population.

    You add all this together, conservative estimates are that they overstating their population by 100 million people. Liberal estimates put this above 400 million.

    Even Chinese people are starting to notice this. Originally, everyone thought only their specific area of China had a population decline. A lot of rural people everyone is moving to the cities and city people assume people are going back to rural area. But the last holiday season where people are traveling to see distant family they have been commenting on their social media "Oh, everywhere has less people now"...till that was censored of course.

    One statement I remember something along the lines of, "when there was 900 Chinese people traffic was always bad at 5:00 PM. Now there are 1.4 billion Chinese and traffic is light at 5:00 PM"

    Basic commodities, rice, salt, pork, cooking oil. Selling far less of it suggests less people. Much less traffic congestion. Much less mall traffic. Kindergartens being closed for lack of kids. A lot of times two declining villages have to merge into one.

    If the CCP's power is based on their high population, that power is much less than they show. But also, the signs are that the Chinese people are less willing to follow the CCP's direction. The number of protests are increasing, but the main way they rebel is by "Lying flat".

    In any event, the CCP isn't to blame for the problems in the UK.
     
  10. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Yes, but the fact remains that ATM China is one of the greatest superpowers in the world.
    We saw a "rapid" collapse of such a superpower only in Soviet Union, but CCCP was composed by various countries (thus increasing internal political struggles) and most of all it was not an economical superpower, a thing you cannot say for China and its current aggressive dominance on the global market.
     

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