7th Ed. carno in units

[lupercal]

can a carnosaur join units now since it is no longer a monsterous creature was just thinking a carnosaur would be a better mount for a lord in a unit of cold one's

 

[The Dark Lord]

I see no reason why it shouldn't be able to join units.

 

[strewart]

Yeah it can join units. Combining it with cold ones is an interesting idea... It would make a very scary unit, I'm not sure I like the idea of my carnosaur being held back by stupidity though.

 

[ACe]

If I remember correctly, they can be picked when shooting at the unit due to their great US + they don't get the 'look out sir!' rule.

 

[blackhawk]

ind, and carnosaur is still a monstrous mount but not a large target anymore.

 

[Dalkarius]

So they can still snipe us in units, but without a bonus, lol. It might be better to run him behind the Cav or skinks so that the shooting can't see him.

 

[Scarloc]

Now that they are no longer large targets would they not be at -1 for shooting at a single model or skirmisher?

 

[Caneghem]

Now that they are no longer large targets would they not be at -1 for shooting at a single model or skirmisher?

Nope, that bonus is only for skirmishers and US1 characters on foot. An Oldblood would get the bonus if he were on foot by himself, but not riding a Carno.

 

[lupercal]

why would he be picked out in the unit for shooting the slann and krox are not so why should he although look out sir is no longer feasiable for him from his unit str the shooting would still be against the unit since he is not a large target also would frenzy carry over to the unit he is in

 

[strewart]

Frenzy doesn't carry to the unit.

See the main rulebook page 74-75. On 74, under Shooting, it says if a character model including mount are US 5 or more then they can be picked out as a target for shooting with no penalty. On page 75 under "look out sir", it says a character with US 5 or more cannot benefit from LoS. Large target has nothing to do with it.

Slann cannot be hit because they are considered "man size", are less than US 5, and sit in the second rank. Kroxigors in fact CAN be hit by shooting, if you look under the rules for kroxigors in the LM army book, you will see that it says missile hits are randomized beteen the skinks and the krox.

 

[MrPeaBuddy]

I saw a game earlier this week where a guy had an oldblood on carno in a unit of CoR, so i assume yes you can have him in a unit

 

[Revered_Guardian]

That would be awesome if the bearer in the unit had the huanchis blessed totem.... perfect for an unstoppable surprise charge on an important unit.

 

[Xerek]

does a failed stupidity test stop the lord cold also? could the lord charge out of the unit on his own leaving the stupid troops behind?

 

[strewart]

Normally, he can charge out on his own and leave them behind, they may then not declare their own charge but the may still move. If a stupidity test is failed it does hold him down though and makes him unable to charge. Stupidity happens in the compulsary moves which is before charging, so he dawdles along stupidly with the unit thus cannot charge.

Hmmm an interesting question arises of what about a frenzied carnosaur? Both compulsory moves, which takes precedence?

 

[Xerek]

i like the way you think...

 

[msinosic]

Just to be totally clear, no matter who fails the stupidty test, the unit or the character in the unit, both the unit and the character will always suffer the restrictions of stupidity.

The rulebook says a Stupid creature cannot voluntarily declare charges, shoot and cannot cast spells for that turn. Does that then suggest you can involuntarily charge due to Frenzy?

 

[strewart]

That is what I am thinking. If you have a carnosaur in the cold ones, it will also suffer stupidty thus cannot choose to charge. However, if it is already frenzied.... I would have to say it would still be able to go balistic since it is a compulsory move, it would effectively happen at the same time as the cold ones' stupidity.

You could almost argue it would even override stupidity. Frenzy doesn't extend from the carnosaur past the rider (the unit does not get frenzy) but if he is in the unit and frenzies, forgetting stupidity for a moment, it would be the unit that charges not just the frenzied character, yes?

Logically the stupid creatures will stay still and stupid and the frenzied creatures will charge forward.. I will have to have a look at the book when I get home. I really should keep a copy of it with me at uni.

 

[msinosic]

There has been a major discussion of Stupidy and Frenzy over here:

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173396

 

[strewart]

Wow... Complicated. And I only read the first page. Add to that, it isn't actually the carnosaur that is stupid, it is the unit.

I think it makes sense that stupid and frenzied models frenzy at normal move (ie. half the charge move from stupidity effect with frenzy being the normal move) so if there is something in that range it is hit by frenzy.

I just looked in the characters section, page 73 of the BRB under Characters and Units says "A character may never join or leave a unit that is subject to a cumpolsory move"

So unfortunately, the carnosaur won't be able to go charging out of a stupid unit. It sort of looks to me like stupidity will overrule frenzy....

 

[msinosic]

No one came out with a definitive Yes or No from that thread. Valid points on both sides. The Warhammer FAQ/Errata fails to clarify the issue so it is technically unresolved and should be up to your gaming group as to which way it should be played.

I think a nice compromise is allowing a Stupid unit to involuntarily charge due to Frenzy at half its charge move. In game terms the unit is too stupid to mount a fill charge but frenzied enough to still want some blood!