7th Ed. Carnosaur and frenzy

[Thunder Lizard]

When does frenzy kick in? Lets say in the first round of combat u roll your carnos attacks. 3 are wounds that are unsaved. So here is my question. Does the carno get his frenzy attack that same round of combat or the next round of combat?


Thanks for the help

Your Friendly Thunder Lizard

 

[Stegadeth]

The rule is quite clear.

"Once the Carnosaur has inflicted an unsaved wound, it immediately becomes subject to Frenzy."

He tastes blood, he goes nuts and he gets his Frenzy then and there gaining that +1 attack even in that round of Close Combat.

 

[Bibamus]

uhhm, not really. a model has a set ammount of attacks when CC starts, frenzy adds 1 to them. the carnosaur inflicts 1 unsaved wound and gains teh frenzy rule thus adding 1 attack to his profile, as he allready made his atacks he (and the rider) get the extra attack the next round of CC.

 

[Stegadeth]

uhhm, not really. a model has a set amount of attacks when CC starts, frenzy adds 1 to them. the Carnosaur inflicts 1 unsaved wound and gains the frenzy rule thus adding 1 attack to his profile, as he already made his attacks he (and the rider) get the extra attack the next round of CC.

I dunno. Immediately means instantly, without lapse of time, with no intervening space. The rule doesn't state "in the next turn" or even "in the next CC phase." It says immediately. When is it stated to immediately gain Frenzy? "Once the Carnosaur has inflicted an unsaved wound." Not "after a Close Combat phase where the Carnosaur inflicts one unsaved wound," nor even, "After the Carnosaur has inflicted an unsaved wound." The use of the word "once" at the beginning of the sentence indicates that this is simultaneous with causing the unsaved wound. What is simultaneous with inflicting an unsaved wound? Gain of the Frenzy characteristic without delay or lapse of time, which grants +1 attack.

The rule says nothing about number of attacks but specifies that upon inflicting only one unsaved wound, the Carnosaur is immediately Frenzied.

 

[bradsul]

The attacks have already been rolled so you don't get to add an additional one in my opinion. I believe the reason they state 'immediately' is so that the other affects of frenzy are applied. For example being immune to psychology and being required to pursue broken enemies.

 

[Stegadeth]

I'd love an official on this. I wouldn't argue with an opponent over it, likely. I suppose if worse came to worse, dice it off. It's only one attack anyway.

 

[Bibamus]

the only instance when you roll more atacks after the 1st rolled in any given CC round is the TK Bone Giant and the VC Vampiric Power: Red Fury. Other than these all atacks are rolled for at the start of the combat (DE poison, spawns of chaos, beasts of nurgle etc) and this is the ammount of attacks the model has for that round of CC.
i don't argue that frenzy does not apply the second an unsaved wound is caused, i argue that you only get the attack bonus for frenzy for the next round of close combat as you allready rolled all your attacks for this combat

interessting question tough bu i don't know if there is any official ruling on it

 

[Thunder Lizard]

That was the problem I was having with the carno/frenzy rule. U are not required to roll all your attack at once you do so to save time. Me I've been playing it that the caron gets the extra attack in the next round of combat. I just wanted to see if I was short changing myself in the first round. My gaming friends are also split. Some tell me to take the extra A others tell me next round. Thanks for the replies

Your Friendly Thunder Lizard

 

[Stegadeth]

Write in to GW. Worse thing that can happen is they don't answer.

 

[Kurlin]

I would say you get it that round because that is immediately. Though I wouldn't argue over it if my opponent was adamantly against it.

If you get the psychology effects that round then you get the attack as well. It doesn't say frenzy takes partial effect immediately.

 

[Bibamus]

you do realise there is no partial effect to be talked about. nobody argues "partial" frenzy, its just that all attacks happen at once, and unless you get some special rule to attack after rolling to wound you're prety much done with that model, i really don't see why you would roll for an additional attack after rolling for the other.
frenzy adds 1 attack to the profile, the profile only gets modified after the atacks happened, it would be the same situation if you decided to roll less attacks than your maximum

 

[Kurlin]

I amjust stating how I see it. As logically all attacks don't happen at the same time. So after first attack wounds you have +1 attacks remaining. From the "immediately " wording.

Like I said though if you see it differently I would be fine not getting that extra attack right away, its just how I see it. And its open to interpretation like too many rules with inconsistent wording.

 

[Caneghem]

If I had to argue this rules-wise I would point to the fact that all attacks are performed simultaneously for each model. This is actually stated in the BRB, and can't be overridden unless explicitly stated by a special rule. The fact that the Carnosaur becomes frenzied immediately means that the special rule is added to his profile immediately. However, since his attacks have already been rolled for the first round, frenzy's extra attack would not apply until his next batch of attacks. Just because the attack gets added to the profile immediately doesn't mean it is used immediately. Say a spell added 1 to a model's movement characteristic during the magic phase... the model would not move forward an extra inch during the magic phase, but would have that higher movement whenever the stat was checked from then on.

 

[JohnMavrick]

It seems to me that the issue about suffering from the psycological effects of frenzy while not gainning the benefit of an extra attack does seem compelling. However in all fairness sakes it seems a bit odd to suddenly gain an extra attack after all your attacks have already been rolled.

But then I suppose people could say the same thing about TK Bone Giants and VC Blood rule. Ultimately I think it's something you should keep an open mind about and discuss with your apponent before the game starts and make the decision then instead of at the moment of contension. If your in a gaming group (as I am) you could argue your case to the group and set up a "house Rule"