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8th Ed. CHAOS DWARFS ~ Analysis & Tactics Discussion

Discussion in 'Other Armies Discussion' started by NIGHTBRINGER, Oct 15, 2021.

  1. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    @NIGHTBRINGER what size base do you have your Destroyer's on?

    And have you put your Deathshrieker Rockets and Magma Cannons on bases?

    Seems like the artillery would be better just by itself...
     
  2. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    The Destroyer is mounted on a 100mmx150mm base, as detailed on the bottom of its rules entry in the Tamurkhan book.

    My Deathshrieker is yet to be assembled, while my Magma Cannon is mostly assembled (sub-assembly for painting purposes) and will be mounted on a chariot base. If you wish not to base your warmachines I believe that is perfectly fine in terms of rules. I don't think bases play a role when it comes to war machines. Personally I prefer to have my war machines based for aesthetic reasons and it also gives me the ability to pick up and move it without having to touch the actual model every time (in order to protect the paintjob).
     
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  3. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    I’ve seen several times that a hero with Dragon Helm or Dragonbane Gem is the counter for the Destroyer, but I guess we’re talking about single, highly mobile hero. If it’s a unit you can just do the rank and file troops for combat resolution.

    I guess I’d be really worried about Lord on a Dragon or other flying beastie, but it seems like it cuts both ways as I’m then going to be taking his big points Lord out of action.

    Same thing for Fireborn.

    I’m thinking of this as I’m painting my guys. I’d need to have a good fast counter for that single hero so it doesn’t bog down my unit. I’d do Destroyer over Fireborn any day of the week due to speed and toughness (plus burning bright favours the Destroyer), but it’s a case of Rare and Special points usage.

    It would be scary to do both, as both relatively fast moving. Looking forwards to trying them out!
     
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  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That's correct. If the character is in a unit, simply vaporize the unit.

    I disagree. In the case of a Lord on a flying monster, the Destroyer simply targets the mount (who has no 2++ protection against flaming attacks). Rack up a bunch of combat res and the lord may break. Even if the lord doesn't break, once the big beastie is gone, the lord is now classed as infantry and is no longer immune to Thunderstomps. Thunderstomps do not benefit from additional special rules (including Flaming Attacks) and therefore they bypass the protection granted by the Dragonbane Gem or Dragonhlem.

    What you really must be wary of with the Destroyer is a fast moving character on a mount that can't be targeted separately.


    I did a brief rundown of this pitting the Destroyer against an Oldblood + Carnosaur combo here
     
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  5. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Nice! I continuously forget about the Thunderstomp not benefitting from any other rules.

    Right. I was thinking Giant Wolves, Terradons and Horses. But I can guard against that in game with a Hobgoblin Khan on Wolf. Or just some killy-shooty things or magic.
     
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  6. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    @Lizards of Renown @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl @Killer Angel and anyone else who might be interested in joining in on the fun!

    I was watching this Bretonnia breakdown video and came across an interesting point he made indirectly about the Chaos Dwarfs. He was talking about adding the Devastating Charge special rule to Bretonnian Knights to help bring it (somewhat) inline with 8th edition armies. At 4:32 of the video, he makes the following statement:

    "Now without devastating charge, I think Bretonnia are the weakest army in 8th edition fantasy. I think they're weaker than Beastmen, I think they're weaker than Tomb Kings. With devastating charge, think they are significantly better than Beastmen and Tomb Kings and arguably Chaos Dwarfs as well."

    So in essence, he is stating that the Chaos Dwarfs, as it stands, are the fourth weakest army in the game (with only the Brets, Tomb Kings and Beastmen below them). I've always thought of the Chaos Dwarfs as a mid-tier army. What do you guys think? Are they weaker than I give them credit? Are they weaker than Orcs & Goblins? Thoughts?

     
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  7. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    No, i definitely don't think they are weaker than O&G. CD are a really solid army. Costly in term of points, so it suffers the weakness of elite armies (aka being usually outnumbered), but it's a tough nut to crack.

    Unless he's implying that they don't have that many units and so they are more limited in the army composition, thus making easier for a competent general to have answers to a "typical" CD army. But that's a stretch, moreso beause the same could be said for the devastating charge, as it's a one trick pony.
     
  8. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    From a purely army list, rules and magic/magic items they are a mid-to-upper level army. They are hampered by the movement of their basic troops, by (as @Killer Angel says) the cost of their better troops but they also have access to Hobgoblins so if you so chose you could have a ridiculous army list of HUNDREDS of Hobgoblins to swamp the other army while your Destroyer played havoc. They suffer from the lack of a really good Lord build, but you can factor that into your tactics to neutralize the opposing Lord while your killing power is unable to be pinned down in one place as you have several of the Hero builds and I believe it is actually one of the best Hero builds there is (especially considering you get Stubborn for free).

    I would say he's probably basing it on his own experiences. I think it would be easy to play CD's badly: go with Core of all Dwarves against a heavy missile/artillery army and not take any of the better long range artillery (or try to shoot it out with them), not utilize the better elements of the army and try to do it with Bull Centaurs (for instance) or (as much as it pains me to say it) Fireborn over Destroyers.

    CD have a good spell set, decent items, some good artillery, some great monster/special troops (Destroyer for one and even Fireborn are not that bad), great Heros (Bull Centaur Render Hero is also not to be scoffed at, hard-hitting and very fast hero that can easily do a flank charge, cause havoc on light Cavalry, etc.)

    So basically no, I don't think it's low tier.
     
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  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    +1

    Glad to hear that I wasn't merely being led astray by my personal bias for the army!

    He is pretty solid. Like a more expensive 4 wound Scar-Vet cowboy. I've been thinking of setting up an army list with 2-3 of these guys.
     
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