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8th Ed. CHAOS DWARFS ~ Army List Construction and Feedback

Discussion in 'Other Armies Discussion' started by NIGHTBRINGER, Sep 26, 2021.

  1. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Inspired by the wonderful discussions that took place in @Lizards of Renown 's Advice for Tomb Kings tactics & army list thread.

    I'll be hoping to share a few Chaos Dwarf army lists I've come up with (and construct a few as we go along).

    My lists will generally be:
    • 3000 points
    • "all-comers" lists (not list building against any one specific army)

    I look forward to your insights and analysis. What do you think could be improved? What are the strengths and weaknesses of the lists? How would you counter it with your armies?
     
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  2. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Okay, to start off, here the current version of my dual Destroyer army list. It comes in at 3,000 points on the button. There are still a few things I am unsure of, but I think it is pretty solid. I hope to get some feedback on it and I will eventually detail my thinking of each of my selections.


    + Lords +

    Sorcerer-Prophet [400pts]

    . Sorcerer-prophet: BRB - Arabyan Carpet, BRB - Enchanted Shield, BRB - Talisman of Preservation, Level 4 Wizard, Lore of Hashut


    + Heroes +

    Bull Centaur Taur'ruk [235pts]

    . Bull Centaur Taur'ruk: Blackshard Armour , BRB - Dawnstone, BRB - Dragonhelm, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard, Great Weapon

    Daemonsmith Sorcerer [145pts]

    . Deamonsmith Sorcerer: AB - Chalice of Blood and Darkness, Level 1 Wizard, Lore of Metal

    Hobgoblin Khan [57pts]

    . Hobgoblin Khan : BRB - Potion of Foolhardiness, Giant Wolf

    Infernal Castellan [197pts]

    . Infernal Castellan: AB - The Mask of the Furnace, Battle Standard Bearer , Shield


    + Core +

    Hobgoblin Cutthroats [157pts]:
    Musician, Standard Bearer
    . 29x Hobgoblin Cutthroat: 29x Bow, 29x Hand Weapon, 29x Light Armour, 29x Throwing Knifes

    Hobgoblin Cutthroats [157pts]:
    Musician, Standard Bearer
    . 29x Hobgoblin Cutthroat: 29x Bow, 29x Hand Weapon, 29x Light Armour, 29x Throwing Knifes

    Infernal Guard [437pts]:
    Deathmask, Musician
    . 30x Infernal: 30x Blackshard Armour, 30x Hand Weapon, 30x Shield
    . Standard Bearer
    . . Magic Standard - 50pts max: BRB - Razor Standard


    + Special +

    Bull Centaur Renders [220pts]:
    Musician, Standard Bearer
    . 4x Bull Centaur Render: 4x Great Weapon, 4x Hand Weapon, 4x Heavy Armour
    . Magic Standard - 50pts max: BRB - Gleaming Pennant

    Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher [100pts]

    . 3x Chaos Dwarf Crew : 3x Hand Weapon, 3x Heavy Armour

    Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher [100pts]

    . 3x Chaos Dwarf Crew : 3x Hand Weapon, 3x Heavy Armour

    Magma Cannon [145pts]

    . 3x Chaos Dwarf Crew : 3x Hand Weapon, 3x Heavy Armour


    + Rare +

    K'daai Destroyer [325pts]:
    K'daai Destroyer

    K'daai Destroyer [325pts]:
    K'daai Destroyer

    ++ Total: [3,000pts] ++
     
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  3. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    I'm not very familiar with the tactics for Chaos Dwarfs but I'm fascinated that you haven't taken a single Hellcannon... For me, looking over the army list, this seems like an autoinclude (all-round strength 5 template weapon? Nigh indestructible?)

    Plus two units of Hobgoblins and one Hobgoblin character on a wolf, then only one unit of Chaos Dwarves... No unit of wolves for the character to be with?

    The two Destroyers are obvious choices after the battle royale that you treated us to on the other thread. Nasty customers and definitely an auto-include for me in a big enough army.

    How would you play this list?
     
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  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    A good question/thought. It all comes down to points. At 3,000 points, rare selections are capped at 750 points (25%). In a double Destroyer list, there simply isn't enough rare points left to squeeze in a Hellcannon.

    My rare selections typically boil down to one of two builds:
    • 2 Destroyers
    • 1 Destroyer + 2 Hellcannons
    I am also tinkering with the idea of running a list with 3 Hellcannons, but that would be more of a fun list as I don't particularly like the idea of not having a single Destroyer on the table.

    The Hobgoblin character should be viewed as purely a chaff unit. He is there to redirect, hunt/disrupt warmachines and die. He is nothing more than a nuisance unit. In CD lists, chaff duties are typically fulfilled by either Hobgoblin Wolf Riders or solo Khans.

    The two units of Hobgoblin Cutthroats (which I am still contemplating about combining into one big unit) are there to shoot down enemy chaff (to clear the way for the Destroyers) and add some numbers.

    I'll do a unit-by-unit strategy breakdown soon!
     
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  5. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Here is my detailed unit by unit outline and what roles they are meant to perform in my army:

    Sorcerer Prophet
    • obligatory level 4 wizard, shares his leadership 10 where needed, can assist the warmachines with his Infernal Engineer special rule
    • with the ability to fly, this guy can pop in an out of the Infernal Guard unit. Depending on the opposition's ranged threats, he can move in close (he can't be march blocked) and make use of some of the shorter ranged spells of the lore of Hashut. Having such a small foot print and model size, it is easy for him to stay out of charge arcs and utilize terrain to remain hidden
    • the Lore of Death (one of the best lores in the entire game) is considered stronger than the Lore of Hashut, but I find it boring to play and I really wanted to field the CD's dedicated lore. Still, the Lore of Hashut can be pretty dangerous and boosts one of the best spells in the entire game.
    • fairly well protected from small enemy fire with his 2+ 4++ saves

    Daemonsmith Sorcerer

    • backup wizard duties and improves warmachine performance. He will hang out with the warmachines
    • Chalice of Doom and Darkness is extremely powerful, and should help swing most magic phases in the favour of the Chaos Dwarfs. Going the route of a dispel scroll is another good option, but that is one use only, while the Chalice can be used in every magic phase (both friendly and enemy phases)
    • would love to get either the Glittering Robe or Enchanted Blades of Aiban spells, but Searing Doom is always a good backup should the rolling for spells not go my way. Final Transmutation is always an option if the opposition has a large deathstar

    Hobgoblin Khan

    • chaff, warmachine hunting, distraction

    Bull Centaur Taur'ruk

    • think of him as a 4 wound Scar-vet cowboy
    • T5, 1+ rerollable armour save and S7! He also forces re-rolls of successful ward saves and is quite fast.
    • The other potential build for him is to drop the re-rollable armour save and OTS in exchange for the Crown of Command. These are my two primary builds for this guy.
    • can perform a variety of tasks on the field as needed, either on his own or in the Bull Centaur Render unit
    • can help clear the way for the two Destroyers and help remove enemy characters equipped with the Dragonbane Gem or Dragonhelm

    Infernal Castellan
    • BSB duties
    • provides stubborn to the Infernal Guard unit, which along with his BSB re-roll makes them very hard to shift

    Hobgoblin Cutthroats
    • Chaos Dwarfs are not that great in the chaff department as they do not have access to fast chaff options from their limited core choices. These guys help even the odds by being utilized as anti enemy chaff via their bow fire.
    • especially important to remove chaff that might be positioning to divert the two Destroyers
    • they also provide some protection of the the war machine backline
    • cheap and expendable

    Infernal Guard
    • the anvil unit of the army. With the Castellan's BSB re-roll and Stubborn special rule these guys can hold the line and work in conjunction with the Bull Centaurs or the Destroyers in a classic hammer + anvil strategy
    • reliable leadership, 3+ armour save, parry and a 5++ against flaming attacks. Razor standard helps them deal a bit better with enemy armour, but I do want to keep them away from the better armoured units in the game
    • protect the warmachine backline

    Bull Centaur Renders
    • this is the choice I am least sure about in the army. If anything is subbed out it will be these guys. Might sub out their GWs.
    • they allow me to field the Bull Centaur Taur'ruk
    • perform a similar function as the Taur'ruk in assisting the Destoryer or hunting things down. Can also assist the Infernal Guard
    • when joined with the Taur'ruk they form a decent hammer unit

    Deathshrieker Rocket Launcher
    • if there are particularly dangerous single entities on the field, these guys can use their Demolition Rocket option to snipe them. Especially effective when backed up by either the Sorcerer-Prophet or Daemonsmith Sorcerer
    • if no eligible single entities are present, they can be used to fire their large 5" template at large lightly armoured units

    Magma Cannon
    • extremely dangerous flame template attack that is very reliable. S5 flame template with a 24"+ range and Multiple Wounds (D3)
    • Primary targets are large dangerous enemy units. Can quickly whittle down opposing deathstars to more manageable sizes. Counters the most dangerous of the enemy's infantry units. Think Witch Elves, Chaos Warriors, Temple Guard, Executioners, White Lions, Gutstar, Hammerers, Grave Guard, Savage Orc Big'uns, Tomb Guard, etc.

    K'daai Destroyer
    • the primary hammer units of the army
    • can take on most enemy units quickly and effectively
    • the rest of the army helps keep these guys from being chaffed up
    • the key tactical consideration is to keep these guys safe from the few counters that be used against them. There are only a few of these counters available in any army, so it will be up to me to identify what they are and neutralize them. If I am successful in this endeavor, the Destroyers will cause untold amounts of damage to the enemy lines
    • their impressive speed allows them to quickly get to where they need to be


    That is the basic idea for this army, but obviously the strategy has to evolve in response to what the opposing player is fielding and doing. It has a bit of everything... combat, shooting, magic and movement. The rest of the army tries to neutralize the few counters that can be used against the Destroyers, while the Destroyers take care of everything else. Warmachines soften up enemy units and snipe enemy monsters and single entities. Sorcerer-Prophet floats around and helps out where he is needed (and kept out of combat). Infantry units stay behind and wait for the enemy to close in to attempt to avoid the warmachine onslaught.

    What do you think? Strengths? Weaknesses? How would you counter the army? What would you change?
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
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  6. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

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  7. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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  8. Imrahil
    Slann

    Imrahil Thirtheenth Spawning

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    That would make for a lot of great looking models on the table ;)

    Grrr, Imrahil
     
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  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Not quite the tactical angle I hoped the discussion would go in, but you aren't wrong. :D
     
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  10. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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  11. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    @NIGHTBRINGER, is there really no Lord option for Chaos Dwarfs that isn't the Sorceror-Prophet?
     
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  12. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Unfortunately our lord selections are extremely limited. You only have the Sorcerer-Prophet or his special character counterpart, Drazhoath the Ashen. I would I love to have access to a Chaos Dwarf fighting lord or a lord level Bull Centaur. Sadly this is not the case, but at least the Sorcerer-Prophet covers your basic lord level duties (level 4, war-machine boosting, leadership 10) in a tough little package. If you're looking for a bit of variation, the only option available to you is switching up mounts. We do have some great hero level characters!
     
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  13. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Well at least he has access to armour so you can invest in his fighting abilities and know you can give him protection.
     
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  14. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    He can cause quite a bit of damage (especially on a Great/Bale Taurus mount if there are no war machines around), just don't put him up against a dedicated close combat fighting lord.
     
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  15. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    How does the Iron Daemon do in terms of competitive play, @NIGHTBRINGER?
     
  16. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

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  17. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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  18. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    It's coming. I just need to spend a bit more time poring over the rulebook to get to grips with each unit type and their rules. (Case in point is missing the Thunderstomp point on the Iron Daemon and being surprised about the Magma Cannon being top of the voting list for best model!)
     
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  19. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    The Magma Cannon is a beast. It is one of the most reliable war machines in the game. Just think about how popular of a choice the Salamander is for Lizardmen; the Magma Cannon is the Chaos Dwarf equivalent, only with greater range, strength and Multiple Wounds (D3).
     
  20. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    Me? Oh, I was probably conversing about Beastmen on EEFL, where the Beastman community is a lot bigger :D

    As much as I’d like to help with Chaos Dorf tactics, it’s been a long while since I read my PDF of the Tamurkhan book, and it’s not high on my priority list to do so again for a while. In any case, you seem to be doing a sterling job on your own both on here and EEFL ;)
     
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