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7th Ed. Charging into Skink Skirmishers

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Temple Guard

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x = chargers o = skinks


xxxxx


o
oooo


My question is, if the skinks are lined up like this, must the charging unit angle itself towards the skink that is further up and then charge in that diretion? Or, can it just charge straight forward and let the charging unit on the far left line up with the lone skink?
 
Well, as they're skirmishers you just have to reach the first one and then they will line up with you.
 
Here's what I think you are going for with the redirect.
_____________________________________________
(Key)
Enemy= XXXXX
Skink Skirm= OOOOO
unit u don't want to be charged= VVVVV
___________________________________________


XXXXX


O
O O O O O

VVVVV

The enemy would have to redirect to come into contact with the closest skink in the Skrim unit. And because your other unit isn't in line of sight due to the skink screen you will be ready to counter charge next turn.

After the charge it would look like this
X
X
X
X


VVVVV

Hope that helps out.

Your Friendly Thunder Lizard
 
When a rank and file unit charges a skirmish unit the first skirmishing unit lines up on the charging unit's front and then fill in to get as many models to bear. When the rank and file unit charges in it moves in as streight a line as possible to the skirmish unit.

Thus, you can not really redirect the unit away with a skirmish unit since they line up to the charging unit. Otherwise you could conceivably put your skirmish units in a flank or rear position to the chargers.

I hope that's not too god awfully muddy of an explanation.
 
Hmmm... see if I can explain clearer...


..............Charge



.......S
........k
........INKS

now the charger has to draw a line from the center of his unit perpendicular to the CLOSEST Skink.
in this case the letter "S"


......S.C
.........K.h
............I.a
..............N.r
................K.g
..................S.e


So they would end up in combat something like this.
(this is changed from how this worked in 6th edition)
 
If that is the case, you could charge the enemy's flank with a block of Saurus (that the skinks were screening), correct?
 
Actually I think it's something more like this....

CCCCCC



X
X X X X X
X X X X

X= Skink Skirmishers
C= Chargers


When the chargers charge the skink unit they will hit the first model they come into contact with.


CCCCCC
X
X X X X X
X X X X


Then the rest of the unit lines up upon the charging unit.

CCCCCC
XXXXXXXX
XX

Thus there is no redirection and the charging unit still faces the way they had been moving origonally. So as you can see it's not possible to redirect a unit with skirmishers unless you can convince your apponent to charge a skirmish unit which is just inside their charge arc and they would have to wheel in order to get the charge off.


CCCCC


X X X X X
X X X X X
 
foster said:
I think you hit the head of the nail there Dumbledore. It's a very nasty unit that has an unbelievable combat resolution that I am having trouble beating, but it's not just the one unit. The other problem is he has another 12 Cold One Cavalry unit (no hero), three 10 man units of fast cavalry with repeater crossbows and 2 wizards on flying horses (not sure of the name), his third wizard with with a cold one unit with the wierd ward save. I haven't faced his 2250pt list but I do know he'll have a dragon in there.

I tried Cohorts but they tend to get shot the pieces with his Fast cavalry or magic that get's through. Even if I get to tempt my brother to charge the Skinks he either charges knowing he is in range of charging the units behind the Skinks or if they're out of range then he doesn't charge and move's off somewhere else. Playing with players that can read distances without needing a tape measure are very difficult to catch out. I'll need to learn how to play the distance game if I'm going to pull off any charges against my bro's Cavalry list.

I know I can lead my Bro's Dark Elves to pursuing my units, but how do you guys go about doing this; Is it just charging Skinks in their flanks, wait for them to fail thier break test and then have them run away and get over-runned by the pursuers. Or is it just waiting for my opponant to declare a charge at my already sneakly placed block of Skinks ready to flee and leave the chargers in the open ready for counter attack.

If anyone can add to this pls comment, I'm looking for other ways Hatred can be used against Dark Elves, or anything I need to look out for when playing an experienced player. .
Click to expand...

http://www.lustria-online.com/posting.php?mode=quote&f=15&p=11578



takip.jpg
(Sory the origional pic seems to be lost)


Here's another link from owr own FAQ...
http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/skink-skirmisher-faq-and-index-updated-with-picture.1855/

Redirection - This role is better suited for Ranked Skinks but can be done by Skirmishers as well. Deploy the closest visible Skink at the angle which you want to redirect the enemy unit. This can happen later in the game if you first use them as harassers.
Kudos to Azactoth for this picture
 
actually, that picture is wrong. a charging unit does not have to wheel if it ican reach its target iwthou doing so, and in the picture the chargers can reach the skirmishers without wheeling thus they don't need to wheel so no redirect happens. you actually need to place your skirmshers so that the enemy needs to wheel to ge them. they usualy neefd to be further away and your closest skink needs to be allmost at the edge of their arc of sight for a succesfull redirect, in most other cases the enmy will just charge straight forward and your skinks will probably die, or flee for no reason
 
Edit: Just looked at the first post again. Mine refers to if the skirmishers flee. If they choose to hold (why?) then yeah it seems the chargers have a bit more control over which way they face.

Well we are talking about the skink skirmishers choosing to flee, not choosing to be hit in combat. In the GW FAQ on skirmishers fleeing they had this to say:

Q. How do skirmishers flee exactly (this may be
important for determining if they have to flee through
enemies or impassable terrain)?

A. If the skirmishers are fleeing from a combat the
situation is easy, as they are treated exactly as a normal
ranked up unit.
If they aren't, the situation may get a bit more
complicated. First, the closest visible skirmisher flees
directly away from the centre of the charging unit by the
distance rolled. Then, every other fleeing skirmisher is
moved by the same distance along the same (parallel)
direction as the first, trying to keep the skirmishing unit
as much as possible in the same formation, as shown in
the diagram below.
Click to expand...
(Page 5)

In which case the diagram is correct. If the skinks hold then the chargers are free to wheel as little or as much as they want and can actually gain an advantage. The FAQ has a nice little diagram showing the same thing as well.

Q. May charging units wheel more than is necessary to
maximize models in the combat when they are
charging? This is sometimes referred to as a ‘tactical
wheel’ and can be used against Skirmishing units to set
up advantageous pursuit/overrun paths, or against
other wider formed units to avoid contacting a
character placed on the corner of the unit, etc.

A. All charging units (including chariots, monsters, etc.):
1. Must try and bring as many models into the combat
as possible, and
2. can wheel (or pivot) only once during the charge
move.
As long as they fulfil these two criteria, they are free to
wheel as much as they want. So ‘tactical’ wheeling is
absolutely fine!
Click to expand...

Both quotes are from the 2008-02 edition on the GW website.
 
Now thats the chart I was looking for. :)
 
Sorry for not using paint/make a diagram. (on forehand :P)

What if that unit in the beautifull diagram does a tacical wheel.
Example:
Say that unit a a unit of knights. You want to redirect it to the right,
he wants to make a tactical wheel.
What comes first?

1. Your unit flees, allowing no tactical wheel for the enemy. They just 'follow' your skirmishers.
1. Your unit flees, but the enemy is allowed to make a tactical wheel. Thus they can set themselves up to 'be redirected' to say, the left.

I assume the first option. But I do not know for sure. But a 'short ranged skirmishers redirect' denies the opponent of any tactical wheeling.
A 'long ranged skirmisher redirect' allows the opponent of any tactical wheeling, IF option number 2 is true.

I'll stop here, waiting for any answers :)

The Hunted
 
I'm pretty sure tactical wheeling by the charger only comes into play when the target skirmish unit is not fleeing. If the target flees, you just have to wheel behind the closest model and move your failed charge distance.
 
Yeah tactical wheeling is to get more models in contact. If you flee, then you flee before they start moving toward you and are forced to flee according to your setup. If you hold they can tactical wheel.
 
Much thanks guys. It enables me to perform a long-range-skirmisher-redirect safely :)
And I love to do that! :P

It becomes very clear with that picture. So, if anyone has questions about redirecting with skirmishers -> link to this page?

The Hunted
 
For those wondering what a tactical wheel would look like:

Redirect1.jpg

TacticalWheel.jpg

TacticalWheel2.jpg

This is why it is paramount that you make sure your closest skirmisher isn't directly infront of the unit, so at least you can force which direction the wheel is made. Though you can never precisely define how far they wheel (unless you flee the charge).
 
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