8th Ed. Chiefs in front rank of Skrox unit

[Dinomokk]

Hi there, I have a quick question regarding Skrox units and chieftains. If you run them 6 wide, and fill the entire front rank with 6 skink chiefs, have you then made your kroxigor untargatable untill one of them dies? Or do the chieftains "count as skinks" for the purposes of the Spawn-Kin rule? Way to often the krox just dies before they get to hit anything, so it would be cool to have a wall that in a lot of cases strikes first to thin the enemy down, then a couple of them dies before the full might of the krox can hit.

Thanks.

 

[SilverFaith]

That sounds like an extreme case of rulesbending. Skink Chiefs are still skinks. But they can take challenge to take at least some attacks away from the kroxigors.

Trying to argue otherwise will likely have your opponent get mad at you, or argue that your second rank is then standard skinks, followed by Kroxigors, who are now unable to attack. It would be awesome to protect them a bit better, but not by trying to find holes in the rules. Try magic, a few beast priests who buffs them with wyssans, or heavens priests to give the enemy -1 to hit, will all help keep them alive long enough to kill someone.

 

[hdctambien]

I use Skrox alot, but I don't necessarily use them to deal out lots of damage.

Your opponent has a choice: kill skinks to get combat rez and get rid of steadfast, or attack Kroxigor to remove the high str attacks.

If they attack my krox, then I'm holding them up for my real combat block to get into combat (flank!) and if they attack skinks, then I'll at least deal out a bunch of damage (and maybe tie or win combat!) with the krox.

Remember, only the front rank of your opponent's unit can attack the Kroxigor (only models that are in base to base with skinks that are in base to base with kroxigor) so at best, only half of your opponents attacking models can swing on the kroxigor.

The Skrox unit is more of an anvil/tarpit unit. It needs a hammer to come in and support it. (Wyssan's can be game changing on Skinks, too ... don't sleep on S4 T3 with a parry!)

 

[Screamer]

I would say yes, he can't target the krox since it's not Skinks but Skink Chiefs in btb. but the unit will be very expensive, at least 700 pts. Not sure it's really worth it to have 300-400 pts of quite squishy heroes to protect the rest of the unit. Better to spend all those points on 20 spear saurus and 5 scarvets, I think. at least for cc. But all those Skink chiefs could be used for diverting.

 

[Dinomokk]

Thanks for the replies ^^

Yeah I agree, it does kinda give that "Rule bender" vibe I guess, and I mostly play for fun so I won't try to argue to hard about this point. However, the rules simply state that Kroxigors has to be placed in the second rank, making no mention of there having to be any regular Skinks in the front rank. Just imagine a skrox unit with 6 chiefs with an additional hand weapon, buffed with a boosted Savage Beast of Horros, AND kroxigors... Would definatly hurt being on the receiving end of 42 STR 7 attacks at initiative 6, followed by 9 additional str 7 attacks at ASL... Might not even need the krox when seeing it like that But they would be usefull in the cases where you are denied the Savage Beast.

24 skinks, 3 kroxigors and 6 chieftains with 2 hand weapons clocks in at about 520 points. Might not be worth it, but it might be a cool thing to try out. Well, being a new lizzie player I just wanted to hear your thoughts

 

[Gary_M]

I don't have the rule book/army book handy, so apologies for anything my memory has got wrong, but I think Skink Chiefs are independent characters, so would have to be placed last.

Therefore the Skrox unit would be deployed correctly, with a row of skinks followed by the Krox.

eg (s = skink, k = krox, c = chief)

ssss
kk
ssss etc

After all regular troops have been deployed the special characters are deployed. This would mean them becoming the front rank, thus

cccc
ssss
kk
ssss etc

The Krox would not be able to attack.

Now, I don;t know what spawn kin does from memory or the combined unit rules - Would the krox push the front rank of skinks out of the way so they could fight?

 

[n810]

Nope Krox remain in the second rank.

cccccc
kkkkkk
kkkkkk
ssssss
ssssss

 

[hdctambien]

When you put a character in a unit, you move the model it replaces to the back of the unit. You don't bump the column back by 1 model.

So the characters would replace the skinks the the front rank, the Kroxigor remain in the 2nd rank, and all the skinks that were in the 1st rank get placed in the rear rank.

Exception: The Champion, musician, and standard will actually end up in the 4th rank behind the Kroxigor! Also, if you have extra Skink chiefs, they would get placed in the 4th rank as well.

Lizardmen 38: "... the kroxigor must be placed in the unit's 2nd rank"

 

[hdctambien]

Also note, when you run a front rank (or more) of characters it is important to wrap your head around the intricacies of the step up rule.

What happens when a model of high initiative kills a Chief and the models of lower initiative attack (especially in the case where you have extra character models waiting in the 2nd (or 4th ) rank)?

I believe regular skinks step-up to kill the gap. (and get to attack even if the dead Chief already attacked) then you can make way with other characters in the next combat round.

Ie,

Initiative 6: Chiefs attack
Initiative 5: Chief is killed
(after) Initiative 5: Skink steps up
Initiative 4: Skink attacks and can be attacked

Next combat:
Backup chiefs make way
Initiative 6: Chiefs attack..

Of course, if you're in a challenge with a single model none of that really matters.

 

[Gary_M]

Thank you for clarifying that - My poor memory strikes again

 

[Screamer]

Exception: The Champion, musician, and standard will actually end up in the 4th rank behind the Kroxigor! Also, if you have extra Skink chiefs, they would get placed in the 4th rank as well.

Actually, the command group must be in the front rank, but musician and standard bearer can be replaced by chiefs using "make way" at beginning of combat. And at end of combat the characters retreat to fourth rank and mus and st moves to the front again. I don't think the champ can be replaced using make way.

 

[rantapanda]

Exception: The Champion, musician, and standard will actually end up in the 4th rank behind the Kroxigor! Also, if you have extra Skink chiefs, they would get placed in the 4th rank as well.

Actually, the command group must be in the front rank, but musician and standard bearer can be replaced by chiefs using "make way" at beginning of combat. And at end of combat the characters retreat to fourth rank and mus and st moves to the front again. I don't think the champ can be replaced using make way.

champ can be moved aside as well with the make way move.

 

[Screamer]

Exception: The Champion, musician, and standard will actually end up in the 4th rank behind the Kroxigor! Also, if you have extra Skink chiefs, they would get placed in the 4th rank as well.

Actually, the command group must be in the front rank, but musician and standard bearer can be replaced by chiefs using "make way" at beginning of combat. And at end of combat the characters retreat to fourth rank and mus and st moves to the front again. I don't think the champ can be replaced using make way.

champ can be moved aside as well with the make way move.

Yup, you're right.