AoS Combat rule

[Crowsfoot]

Ok guys I'm unclear on this sectiom,

"The player whose turn it is picks a unit to attack with, then the opposing player must attack with a unit, and so on until all eligible units on both sides have attacked once each. If one side completes all its attacks first, then the other side completes all of its remaining attacks."

How this read to me is if say my unit of orcs enters combat with my sons saurus warriors, I attack then the saurus attack even though it is not the players turn.

We are currently playing orcs attack then I move onto my next unit without any return combat until it is my sons turn.

Which is the right way?

Cheers guys

 

[StealthKnightSteg]

Player who's turn it is (You) picks first unit to attack with -> then opponent picks A unit to attack with -> then you pick again -> opponent picks again etc till all eligible units have done their business. That is why having an odd number of units in combat in your favor is a great tactical decision to make. Giving you the upper hand in controlling combat with doing the first damage (or more damage)

Problem lies mostly in the wording about the next paragraph.. together with this line it might (or might not) imply that you can leave units out of attacking (not having to pile in and deliver attacks when a unit is sucked into the combat by the 3" rule)

 

[Crowsfoot]

Player who's turn it is (You) picks first unit to attack with -> then opponent picks A unit to attack with -> then you pick again -> opponent picks again etc till all eligible units have done their business. That is why having an odd number of units in combat in your favor is a great tactical decision to make. Giving you the upper hand in controlling combat with doing the first damage (or more damage)

Problem lies mostly in the wording about the next paragraph.. together with this line it might (or might not) imply that you can leave units out of attacking (not having to pile in and deliver attacks when a unit is sucked into the combat by the 3" rule)

So we have been playing it wrong so each player attacks in each player turn, no wonder our games take so long.

One more thing if you can help on this, once in combat can the unit/monster/hero leave combat or do they fight to the death?

 

[YZK]

One more thing if you can help on this, once in combat can the unit/monster/hero leave combat or do they fight to the death?

As per page 3 of the Rules:
Units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or retreat. If you choose to retreat, the unit must end its move more than 3" away from all enemy units. If a unit retreats, then it can’t shoot or charge later that turn (see below).

So, in your movement phase you can move any unit that is in combat. I believe you can even choose to "Run" - I don't see anything that prevents you from doing that. Note that whether you run or not, if you retreat from combat, you can't shoot or charge in the same turn (just like running).

Also not that you can move in any direction while retreating. However, the unit can not be moved across other models (friendly or otherwise), and must end outside of 3" of enemy models.

 

[StealthKnightSteg]

As per page 3 of the Rules:
Units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or retreat. If you choose to retreat, the unit must end its move more than 3" away from all enemy units. If a unit retreats, then it can’t shoot or charge later that turn (see below).

So, in your movement phase you can move any unit that is in combat. I believe you can even choose to "Run" - I don't see anything that prevents you from doing that. Note that whether you run or not, if you retreat from combat, you can't shoot or charge in the same turn (just like running).

Also not that you can move in any direction while retreating. However, the unit can not be moved across other models (friendly or otherwise), and must end outside of 3" of enemy models.

This, though with a small adjustment. If your unit has the FLY special rule they CAN move across other models, as long as they end outside of 3"of enemy models.

Also! There are special rules set in the game with command abilities or otherwise that DO allow to re-enter combat after retreating

 

[Crowsfoot]

As per page 3 of the Rules:
Units starting the movement phase within 3" of an enemy unit can either remain stationary or retreat. If you choose to retreat, the unit must end its move more than 3" away from all enemy units. If a unit retreats, then it can’t shoot or charge later that turn (see below).

So, in your movement phase you can move any unit that is in combat. I believe you can even choose to "Run" - I don't see anything that prevents you from doing that. Note that whether you run or not, if you retreat from combat, you can't shoot or charge in the same turn (just like running).

Also not that you can move in any direction while retreating. However, the unit can not be moved across other models (friendly or otherwise), and must end outside of 3" of enemy models.

Cheers, something else were not doing!

 

[Crowsfoot]

This, though with a small adjustment. If your unit has the FLY special rule they CAN move across other models, as long as they end outside of 3"of enemy models.

Also! There are special rules set in the game with command abilities or otherwise that DO allow to re-enter combat after retreating

Yeah I have seen the rules for gobbos and skinks that can retreat but was not sure about other units, cheers guys AOS just got even better.

 

[StealthKnightSteg]

In conjunction with this and with the Pile-in debate I had on a you tube instruction video from Table-Top Minis I also see a nice tactic in using large units that can "surround" another unit (that does not have FLY) in which case the surrounded unit CAN'T retreat anymore as it can not move away anymore as it has to have physical room to walk/run out. Now that you know unit coherency is to keep your models within 1" you can also surround another unit with a bit less models by just parsing them out more till that 1" unit coherency rule.

 

[Bainbow]

In conjunction with this and with the Pile-in debate I had on a you tube instruction video from Table-Top Minis I also see a nice tactic in using large units that can "surround" another unit (that does not have FLY) in which case the surrounded unit CAN'T retreat anymore as it can not move away anymore as it has to have physical room to walk/run out. Now that you know unit coherency is to keep your models within 1" you can also surround another unit with a bit less models by just parsing them out more till that 1" unit coherency rule.

That tactic was quite hilariously used on me the other day in this week's Quest For Gold match. I'll write up a battle report on it when I finish work.

 

[Freddy25]

Guys, I have a question: the tactic of sorrounding your enemy in order to delete his possibility to retreat from combat is smart, funny and realistic, but if someone wants to play Rules As Written I don't think it would be allowed.

This is what is written under the Combat Phase paragraph:
"Step 1: When you pile in, you may move each model in the unit up to 3" towards the closest enemy model.
This will allow the models in the unit to get closer to the enemy in order to attack them.
Step 2: Each model in the unit attacks with all of the melee weapons it is armed with (see Attacking)."

This is rarely translated into a movement of "surrounding"

Spoiler: But of course...

...this is Age of Sigmar, so is always possible to talk with your opponent and allow this tactical surrounding pile-in movement!
I myself play this way, equally as measuring from bases instead of models' parts

 

[Bainbow]

Guys, I have a question: the tactic of sorrounding your enemy in order to delete his possibility to retreat from combat is smart, funny and realistic, but if someone wants to play Rules As Written I don't think it would be allowed.

This is what is written under the Combat Phase paragraph:
"Step 1: When you pile in, you may move each model in the unit up to 3" towards the closest enemy model.
This will allow the models in the unit to get closer to the enemy in order to attack them.
Step 2: Each model in the unit attacks with all of the melee weapons it is armed with (see Attacking)."

This is rarely translated into a movement of "surrounding"

Spoiler: But of course...

...this is Age of Sigmar, so is always possible to talk with your opponent and allow this tactical surrounding pile-in movement!
I myself play this way, equally as measuring from bases instead of models' parts

As with all non-core AoS rules, the players can elect to ignore this if both agree.

 

[Freddy25]

As with all non-core AoS rules, the players can elect to ignore this if both agree.

Yeah, infact I think this has to be the case: not to allow this kind of maneuvre seems to me a big loss in terms of fun and strategy.

Just another question about combat rules.
Let's say I have the classic 5x5 Saurus Warrior unit. In this case, by the way, the guy
in the middle ofthe second row is not a simple warrior, but an Oldblood equipped with a spear (becouse of its 2''range).
How do you deal with the charges made by this unit? You make a single 2D6
charge roll and then move all these 25 models, or not?

I usually behave this way, even if the rules clearly say
"Once you’ve moved all the models in the unit, you can pick another eligible
unit to make a charge, until all units that can charge have done so",
meaning that theorically I shoul charge with the warriors and then whith the hero,
having the possibility to respectively fail one or the other.

 

[Bainbow]

Yeah, infact I think this has to be the case: not to allow this kind of maneuvre seems to me a big loss in terms of fun and strategy.

Just another question about combat rules.
Let's say I have the classic 5x5 Saurus Warrior unit. In this case, by the way, the guy
in the middle ofthe second row is not a simple warrior, but an Oldblood equipped with a spear (becouse of its 2''range).
How do you deal with the charges made by this unit? You make a single 2D6
charge roll and then move all these 25 models, or not?

I usually behave this way, even if the rules clearly say
"Once you’ve moved all the models in the unit, you can pick another eligible
unit to make a charge, until all units that can charge have done so",
meaning that theorically I shoul charge with the warriors and then whith the hero,
having the possibility to respectively fail one or the other.

There's a fun little minigame we play every so often where we get a super-defensive, nearly impenetrable small army such as a 30-man Eternal Starhost and then have them try to survive against infinite zombies coming in giant respawning hordes from all directions, the ability to pile-in and surround is vital for the Zombie player and we couldn't do it without.

 

[Crowsfoot]

Yeah, infact I think this has to be the case: not to allow this kind of maneuvre seems to me a big loss in terms of fun and strategy.

Just another question about combat rules.
Let's say I have the classic 5x5 Saurus Warrior unit. In this case, by the way, the guy
in the middle ofthe second row is not a simple warrior, but an Oldblood equipped with a spear (becouse of its 2''range).
How do you deal with the charges made by this unit? You make a single 2D6
charge roll and then move all these 25 models, or not?

I usually behave this way, even if the rules clearly say
"Once you’ve moved all the models in the unit, you can pick another eligible
unit to make a charge, until all units that can charge have done so",
meaning that theorically I shoul charge with the warriors and then whith the hero,
having the possibility to respectively fail one or the other.

I move my units the same way, I still use movement trays but when I pile in I remove some off the tray, just makes moving units so quick.

 

[Freddy25]

Ok, thanks for your answers, but there's a last point which I would like to hear your opinion about.
When you have a Hero in the middle of a unit and want to charge with this mixed force an enemy, you SHOULD
make 2 separate Charge Rolls (for the hero and for the other models).
Do you follow this rule, or simply make 1 charge roll for the entire block of models?

 

[Bainbow]

Ok, thanks for your answers, but there's a last point which I would like to hear your opinion about.
When you have a Hero in the middle of a unit and want to charge with this mixed force an enemy, you SHOULD
make 2 separate Charge Rolls (for the hero and for the other models).
Do you follow this rule, or simply make 1 charge roll for the entire block of models?

I roll for each unit, not each block.

 

[StealthKnightSteg]

I roll for each unit, not each block.

this

 

[StealthKnightSteg]

Guys, I have a question: the tactic of sorrounding your enemy in order to delete his possibility to retreat from combat is smart, funny and realistic, but if someone wants to play Rules As Written I don't think it would be allowed.

This is what is written under the Combat Phase paragraph:
"Step 1: When you pile in, you may move each model in the unit up to 3" towards the closest enemy model.
This will allow the models in the unit to get closer to the enemy in order to attack them.
Step 2: Each model in the unit attacks with all of the melee weapons it is armed with (see Attacking)."

This is rarely translated into a movement of "surrounding"

Spoiler: But of course...

...this is Age of Sigmar, so is always possible to talk with your opponent and allow this tactical surrounding pile-in movement!
I myself play this way, equally as measuring from bases instead of models' parts

towards the closest enemy model.
To me this doesn't say which route he should take to complete this for his 3" pile-in move. So if that means he needs to go around to do it then it must be so. But then his 3" is used up and either he then can reach his target model or another model within reach or he has another 3" pile-in move next combat round versus a new closest model.

 

[Nielspeterdejong]

I believe you can simply move and run over friendly units right?

 

[Bowser]

No, friendly units can still block your path, you measure the shortest distance, even if blocked by friendly models.