8th Ed. D3 Wounds on Impact hits ?

[archangelvk]

Hello everyone. I just started lizardmen and they seem to be a fun army to play. I had a short and quick question about the stegadons D3 impact hits.

So say i charge and roll a 3 (+1) impact hits. Lets say all of them wound and no armour saves are made. After i made the 4 wounds I roll a 4 for all of the d3 wounds. Does this mean that I kill a total of 8 models?

Thanks in advance

 

[Drmooreflava]

open your rulebook, go to the index, look up "multiple wounds", it is in the special rules section. It should explain everything. Also look up the rules for multiple wound models. Hope those reading assignments help.

 

[archangelvk]

open your rulebook, go to the index, look up "multiple wounds", it is in the special rules section. It should explain everything. Also look up the rules for multiple wound models. Hope those reading assignments help.

Yah I did read it but I just want to make sure. Since imapct hits dont target a specific model and the unit i THINK i have it right ?

 

[Mr Phat]

Its like this.

If you charge a unit of infantry who has 1Wound per model, you dont gain anything from the multiple wounds.

If you hit with 4 impacts, thats what you get.

BUT

if you charge a unit that has multiple wounds.. a unit of Ogre Iron Guts for example, then its different.

each of these guys have 3 wounds

lets say you hit with 4 impacts again...now when there is change to cause multiple wounds, you can.

Instead of dealing the normal wounds(1 per model) you roll to see how many wounds the hit causes.

this mean instead of killing 1 iron gut and putting a wound another, you can potentially kill 4* Iron Gut if you roll 3 on D3 for each attack.

example:
Impact hit 1 -Wound roll on D3: 2
Impact hit 2-Wound one roll on D3: 1
Impact hit 3 -Wound one roll on D3: 1
Impact hit 4 -Wound one roll on D3: 3


instead of 4 wounds, you lay down 7 wounds from 4 impact hits.

 

[Animaux]

just to play devils advocate what would happen if i rolled for 3 wounds on a 2 wound model would the extra wound carry over?

 

[Maert]

just to play devils advocate what would happen if i rolled for 3 wounds on a 2 wound model would the extra wound carry over?

No, each multiple wounds hit can only give maximum number of wounds equal to the number of wounds model has.

 

[Mr Phat]

just to play devils advocate what would happen if i rolled for 3 wounds on a 2 wound model would the extra wound carry over?

I would love to see them explain this fluffwise


"The carnosaurs bite tore his men apart, and as Champion John Doe watched horrified as the beast finished of his squire...he mentally snapped and stabbed himself.....twice....and died"

 

[serbianwolf]

Its like this.

If you charge a unit of infantry who has 1Wound per model, you dont gain anything from the multiple wounds.

If you hit with 4 impacts, thats what you get.

BUT

if you charge a unit that has multiple wounds.. a unit of Ogre Iron Guts for example, then its different.

each of these guys have 3 wounds

lets say you hit with 4 impacts again...now when there is change to cause multiple wounds, you can.

Instead of dealing the normal wounds(1 per model) you roll to see how many wounds the hit causes.

this mean instead of killing 1 iron gut and putting a wound another, you can potentially kill 4* Iron Gut if you roll 3 on D3 for each attack.

example:
Impact hit 1 -Wound roll on D3: 2
Impact hit 2-Wound one roll on D3: 1
Impact hit 3 -Wound one roll on D3: 1
Impact hit 4 -Wound one roll on D3: 3


instead of 4 wounds, you lay down 7 wounds from 4 impact hits.

does this mean u killed 2 ironguts a 1 wound on the 3rd, or you killed 1 iron gut and u wounded 3 of them?

 

[Mr Phat]

does this mean u killed 2 ironguts a 1 wound on the 3rd, or you killed 1 iron gut and u wounded 3 of them?

Wounds go on the unit, and the "unit" recieved 7 wounds.
meaning:
2 ironguts down, 1 Wound on the third

 

[Spiney Norman]

does this mean u killed 2 ironguts a 1 wound on the 3rd, or you killed 1 iron gut and u wounded 3 of them?

Wounds go on the unit, and the "unit" recieved 7 wounds.
meaning:
2 ironguts down, 1 Wound on the third

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works, you allocate wounds from the wound pool to a model, then roll your multiple wound D3

Here's how it would go
Allocate wound 1 on irongut 1, it does 2 wounds, Irongut 1 is down to 1 wound
Allocate wound 2 on irongut 1, it does 1 Wound, irongut 1 dies
Allocate would 3 on irongut 2, it does 1 wound, irongut 2 is down to 2 wounds
Allocate would 4 on irongut 2, it does 3 wounds, irongut 2 dies

You have technically done 4 wounds on a 3W model but since multiple wounds can't be carried over on to other models the last wound is wasted.

 

[OmegaHavoc]

Spiney Norman is correct.

 

[Mr Phat]

oh...makes sense. My mistake.

 

[olderplayer]

There is a page of the rules on the multiple wound and multiple models in the BRB (Page 45), not in the special rules but in the main rules. The upshot is that the multi-wound roll allows wounds up to the maximum number of wounds on the model profile when attacking a R&F unit. You do not allocate attacks on the unit. So, if ironguts have 3 wounds each, MW3 means each unsaved wound can cause up to 3 wounds. Also, that section of the BRB deals with adding up wounds on multiwound rank and file models. In that case, in the extample previously discussed, if you caused a total of 7 unsaved wounds you first apply those wounds to the rear model already wounded and then to other models such that 7 wounds on a unit with no existing wounds would kill 2 ironguts and leave 1 wound on one model in the rear rank. It is very clear and not controversial. The only exception is when their are character and champions in the front rank and there are fewer that five rank and file models (including musicians and standard bearers). When that occurs, the hit are allocated by the controlling player of the unit with each model hit until all models are hit and then accordingly. In that circumstance, resolving the hits on the rank and file models together but the hits on champion and characters separately.

This means that even if one rank and file model already has a wound or two, the max wounds tht can be caused by a multiwound hit is based on the starting wounds on the model. On the other hand, hitting characters and champions that separately track wounds, you can only cause as many wounds as remain, not based on their starting wounds. This is a convenience so that it si easier to roll at once and resovlee at once all the hits and wounds on the multiwond models.

See BRB page 45.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

Spiney Norman is NOT correct.

Except when attacks are specifically directed at the unit champion, you don't allocate wounds to different models in a unit of multi-wound models. Read page 45 of the Big Red Book. Summarizing that page, multi-wound attacks against multi-wound models work like this:

1) Roll to hit (not necessary for impact hits)

2) Roll to wound

3) Take any applicable armor/ward saves

4) Multiply each unsaved wound

-----Roll the appropriate die for each wound inflicted

-----The die roll is capped by the number of wounds ON THE PROFILE
of what you are attacking--the number of wounds currently remaining don't matter.
So if you are attacking an Ogre Irongut unit with an attack that does D3 wounds, we
don't care about this capping mechanism since the models have 3 wounds each (an
attack that does d6 wounds would have rolls of 4-6 reduced to 3 in this case).

5) Add up the total number of multiplied wounds, add any wounds already on the unit, and
remove the appropriate number of models.

6) If there are any extra wounds that are not sufficient to remove a model, keep them on the unit.

 

[Burnside]

Re: D3 Wounds on Impact hits

A second vote for Dyvim being correct.
How to correctly apply multiple wounds is one of the easiest things to misunderstand and get wrong.

 

[OmegaHavoc]

If you refer to the next paragraph where it talks about multi wound models and multi wound weapons it says to determine how many wounds are caused to each model individually. So you would roll each multi wound separately like Spiney Norman said earlier.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

The paragraph you refer to will not normally have any practical effect. Impact hits are resolved against the unit (not against individual models in the unit) like missile fire. There is no requirement that the hits only go against models in base contact, so the hits would be spread through the unit. You would total up the number of multiplied wounds, divide by the number of wounds on the profile, and remove casualties.

 

[OmegaHavoc]

How is that argument relevant seeing as both paragraphs are under removing casualties for shooting?? Hits from impact hits are distributed the exact same way bow fire is distributed. No difference. The paragraph and rules I refer to are how to deal with multiple wound shots and multiple wound models. This rule is a very relevant part of dealing with multiple wound impact hits against multiple wound models such as ogres.

You roll each wounding hit individually and apply to the unit.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

You roll each wounding hit individually and apply to the unit.

I agree with this statement.

But that does not mean that you apply multiple hits to a single model until it is eliminated, potentially wasting the multiple wounds caused by a second or third hit. This is what what Spiney Norman would have us do and you said you support him.

Instead, you simply roll the appropriate die for each hit (capped based on number of wounds on the profile), add up the total, and divide by the number of wounds. That's your number of casulaties, and excess wounds not sufficient to remove a model remain on the unit.

 

[OmegaHavoc]

Ok. After reading the rule over a bunch of times I agree with you. Roll each multiple wound, count up number of wounds, remove models.