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8th Ed. Defeating The New Nagash

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Tactics' started by captainslaughter, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    I wonder how many skink posion shots it would take to kill him in one round... :artist:
    (with Mathhammer)
     
  2. borkbork
    Ripperdactil

    borkbork Active Member

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    I did some math for my goblins.

    A unit of 200 archers with spider banner (poison) will get off 120 shots (volley fire) and assuming they hit on a 5+ you will end up with 5 wounds from poison and 0.8 wounds from the non poisoned shots. So you will need quite a few more than 120 shots.

    For the gobbos the story will change if you get gift of the spider god spell off
     
  3. hdctambien
    Terradon

    hdctambien Active Member

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    Assuming you need 5's to hit:

    (a * 1/6 + (a * 1/6 * 1/6)) / 2 / 2 = 7

    (a/6) + (a/36) / 4 = 7

    a/6 + a/36 = 28

    6a + a = 1008

    7a = 1008

    a = 144

    If you need 6's to hit, then it's easier to work backwards

    7 wounds
    Ward save's half of them = 14 shots
    armor save's half of them = 28 shots
    every 6 shots = 1 poison wound = 28 * 6 = 168 shots

    So, if you are hitting on 5's you need 144 shots
    if you are hitting on 6's you need 168 shots
     
  4. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    hmm... yea ... 84 Blowbipe Skinks multi-shoting seems in the realm of possible. :D
     
  5. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    I suppose if 0 of Nagashes 9 spells are direct damage. Whenever I deploy Skirmisher groups close together I always get magic missile induced chain reaction panics.
     
  6. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    LOL :D
    I never said it would be easy,
    only said it was possible. ;)

    Realisticly, it would probaly take 2 rounds with that many skinks,
    and you would probaly loose half of them.
    o_O :rage:
     
  7. hdctambien
    Terradon

    hdctambien Active Member

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    Except Nagash should be able to heal a non-trivial amount of wounds each turn....

    Every wound he heals means another 21 5+ shots (or 24 6+ shots) ..
     
  8. rychek
    Troglodon

    rychek Active Member

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    Ah yes. I had forgotten that little nugget.
     
  9. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    I haven't read into his rules a lot,
    is his healing a for of regen, or
    perhaps a spell, or something alltogether unique ?
     
  10. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    it was first turn, no buffs, no hexes. This sums up the majority of my luck in warhammer games.


    edit:
    Upon further investigation, it seems that arcane unforging seems to be the way to go. every one of his magic items are game changing. Get rid of the book and he loses 4 spells, the sword and he's doing considerably less damage, and the armour is a no-brainer. Without the armour he will just die.

    Also, people in this thread have said he can heal wounds... how? Is it an undeath spell?
     
  11. rychek
    Troglodon

    rychek Active Member

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    Ouch. Further words fail me.
     
  12. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    As mentioned earlier.

    Nagash can choose his spells from multiple lores. One of these lores is the Lore of Vampires. The Lore of Vampires signature spell is called Inovcation of Nehek (IoN). IoN heals undead 1d6+5 wounds when cast by Nagash in a bubble effect. IoN doesn't work as well on vampriic or ethereal targets but Nagash is neither vampiric nor ethereal.

    As not mentioned earlier, the lore attribute of Lore of Vampires lets a friendly undead model be healed a wound.

    I have no idea what the new lore has.
     
  13. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Scal - i tried looking through the thread... I must have had a boy's look!

    That being the case, he only gets his heals off if we let the spell through, and if he's trying to get the spells off, then he's not casting his other ridiculously potent dead-raising spells. If he 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 dices the spell, then he'll miscast and hopefully get sucked into the warp, or drop his wizard level. either way i'm OK with hahaha
     
  14. hdctambien
    Terradon

    hdctambien Active Member

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    Also, one of the Undeath spells is a healing spell. Something like 1d3+1 wounds I think. And it creates a token worth 30 extra points for Nagash to raise with later.

    It's worthwhile for him to force through a healing spell if it looks like he's taking a beating.

    I agree that arcane unforging is the way to go against Nagash. A couple hits from that and pretty much anything can take him down!
     
  15. hdctambien
    Terradon

    hdctambien Active Member

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    He gets to reroll on the miscast table... so it's less likely that he will get one of the nasty results.. and the other results will barely scratch him.
     
  16. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    2-4 death by chaos warp
    10-12 power drain

    Half a chance for a good result. 1/2 x 2 = 2/4 = 1/2
    I'm sticking to it :p
     
  17. hdctambien
    Terradon

    hdctambien Active Member

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    There are 6 ways out of 36 for Cascade and 6 ways out of 36 for Power Drain, so 12 / 36 bad results or 24 / 36 not-bad results (even the Str 10 hit miscast is only going to cause 1 wound half the time... so not a terrible result)

    With rerolls Nagash will get a "good" result:

    24/36 + (12/36 * 24/36)
    = 2/3 + (1/3 * 2/3)
    = 2/3 + 2/9
    = 6/9 + 2/9
    = 8/9
    = 88.9% of the time

    or 11.1% chance for a bad miscast.

    Although, a quarter of those bad miscasts are going to be Cascade without falling down the hole, so that really means that 11.1 / 4 = 2.7% of the time the miscast isn't bad at all (besides ending the magic phase for Nagash)

    So, 8.4% chance for a bad miscast for Nagash!

    Compared to a normal wizard's 25% chance to fall down the hole/lose levels.

    It's better than nothing though!
     
  18. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    Good stats Hdc! so the outline for me is:

    1: Becalming, channel combo, and double scroll
    2: Poison javs until you can get him in combat
    3: unforge his gear
    4: clog him up with un-stompables and iceshard/speed of light bubble


    Another thought - piranha blade will do nicely. just have to get some buffs off to help the wounds. 3 unsaved wounds could see him dead, and he'd only get his ward save. Other tricksters shard can really get its money's worth.
     
  19. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    Piranha blade won't be enough, not even close. Also remember that he have multiple wounds D3 with HKB. Even if we have a ward of 4+ he'll do an average of 2 wounds to us, not to mention the chance of HKB.
     
  20. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    No, i understand that. It's more of a "and this could also help" type dealio
     

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