9th Age Discussion of OpenHammer (ETC) and Ninth Age (Swedish Comp)

[The Sauric Ace]

So after having played roughly 10 hours of Metal Gear Solid last night I came up with an amazing idea in the latest of hours. So if it's not so amazing I blame the lack of sleep

I've always thought our army was kinda similar to orc and goblins in just one area. Both have the "brutes" (orcs/saurus) and the more nimble ones (skinks/goblins) who also happen to take care of monsters, machines and so on. The big difference is that while an all goblin list (with a few orc characters) isn't super competitive it's definately more viable than an all skinks list. The main issues with an all skinks list is that lack of proper hard hitting units and low leadership, so I came up with the following:

Skink chief to have Ld7, add 5-10pts.

New special skink unit
[insert sexy name of models here]

Price: 9-10pts.
M6| WS3| BS3| S4| T3| W1| I4| A1| Ld5

Equipment:
Blades of the Piranha: Amour Piercing.
Lustrian Javelins.
Shield and Light Armour.

Upgrades: Poison (close combat) - 1pts (skink cohort would pay 1pts as well).
Upgardes: Magic Banner 25-50pts.

Special Rules:
1# When joined by a Skink Chief they gain his Weapon Skill as long as he's in the unit.
2# When a Skink Priest is casting an Augment on this unit he does so with a +2 To Cast.

Comments:
I wanted the unit to be cheap yet effective. I didn't want it to have halbards due to Templeguards and I didn't think Great Weapons would be fitting at all.
S4 AP in massed numbers isn't going to melt monstrous cavalry, but they'll be able to handle most units. Considering their javelins they can both harass and stand and shoot and with poison in close combat they'll be able to bring down most bigger models.
With the current rules 9th Age rules they have a 4+/5+ save.
I wanted to create synergy with our current skink characters and WS4 for what is essentially an "elite" unit isn't too extreme. The downside is obviously that the chief himself is super squishy.
+2 To Cast it promote skink priest play (maybe add named skink characters as well). A lvl 2 would have a 4+ To Cast and with Lore of Heaven we can reroll a single dice so the casting power is relatively good.
The current Lore of Beast have Augments like Wyssan's, Frenzy and +1M/Swiftstride which would all benefit the unit.
Also combined with solardon they can gain I5 and hit simultanously with elves and various chaos units.

Obviously the unit isn't super competitive, but I like it. It's versatile and add some interesting play with the priest and chief. It's fluffy with AP and Poison and give us something we don't have - a special skink infantry unit. It's decently heavy hitting with S4/AP

I was actually thinking that some kind of melee focused skink unit, could be an interesting addition to the core section. I don't know if it fluff wise proper and I am too a saurus fan boy, so I wouldn't want a unit to out shine our SW

My idea would be far more mundane, though.

M6| WS3| BS3| S3| T2| W1| I6| A1| Ld6

I actually like your ideas for special rules, the skink chief, one could be potent. Maybe make them -2AP and then just as my example S3. While T2 is very low, I think they could be an interesting fill the gap kind of melee choice. Maybe use them against slow unit where they would gain the most from their AP, rules and the "high" WS, with a skink chief present?

The +2 Cast for Skink priests is actually a pretty fair addition, with this sort of unit. The problem with this, is that they essential is a jack of all, master of none, type of unit. They're fast, but not that fast, their AP and potential for good Ws, but not that good in combat after all, only 1 attack and, at least in my case, only average Ld (Cold-blooded 6, might be slighty better than 7, though). However I feel like they would surely have there use, if they also had poison, only issue, who would take them without

I like the concept, probably not likely to exist, but I like them!

 

[skink chief]

Just to be able to play a skink army as you can play a goblin army, I understand they would be a good addition. But the need for them isnt really there to make our army more balanced or anything like that. With the rules as we see now deathstars will be less powerfull (unit size restrictions, allways able to hit normal units) our saurus will be a better choice in 9th then in 8th.taking the recent math hammer for our saurus they already seemed to be more powerfull then most of us thought them to be. So again I don't really see the need of them.

 

[The Sauric Ace]

I reckon their basically a fun addition, for the sake of argument; they could be interesting, with the rules suggested

I would Love to see a MC unit of our own, though! Something unique, yet very like this army. I was joking about a unit consiting of juvenile Carnosaur, ridden by almost Scar-veterans But that's not going to happen. Some kind of Saurus ridden, cool reptilian creature, maybe something to fill a gap, grant a new dimension or simply to make the choices of the army book more diverse. The Juvenile Carno, idea should obvious be a rare choice, hold in mind, that this is purely my wish listing, we are talking about. Anyway, such a unit could be a very fun and great looking unit, but so is all of our models it would probably mostly just fill the niche of our current, not so often used, Cold One riders,but do the job, better. So any MC should be handle with care; look what happen to the mighty Chaos knights, once they got a MC option.

 

[skink chief]

That idea i support 100%

 

[Pinktaco]

I reckon their basically a fun addition, for the sake of argument; they could be interesting, with the rules suggested

I would Love to see a MC unit of our own, though! Something unique, yet very like this army. I was joking about a unit consiting of juvenile Carnosaur, ridden by almost Scar-veterans But that's not going to happen. Some kind of Saurus ridden, cool reptilian creature, maybe something to fill a gap, grant a new dimension or simply to make the choices of the army book more diverse. The Juvenile Carno, idea should obvious be a rare choice, hold in mind, that this is purely my wish listing, we are talking about. Anyway, such a unit could be a very fun and great looking unit, but so is all of our models it would probably mostly just fill the niche of our current, not so often used, Cold One riders,but do the job, better. So any MC should be handle with care; look what happen to the mighty Chaos knights, once they got a MC option.

This again? .______. What about them poor ripperdactyls?

Also a MC unit similar to demigryphs, skullcrushers and mournfangs would be boring to say the least, at least in my opinion. This was why I came up with an elite skink unit. They're something different and have an interesting synergy.

 

[Pinktaco]

Just to be able to play a skink army as you can play a goblin army, I understand they would be a good addition. But the need for them isnt really there to make our army more balanced or anything like that. With the rules as we see now deathstars will be less powerfull (unit size restrictions, allways able to hit normal units) our saurus will be a better choice in 9th then in 8th.taking the recent math hammer for our saurus they already seemed to be more powerfull then most of us thought them to be. So again I don't really see the need of them.

Creating a new unit for our army is hard if you consider the following:

We already have 4 monsters, 1 monstrous infantry, 2 monstrous beast and 2 monstrous cavalry units.
We have both scouts and vanguard units.
We have a core that can both tank (shield/sword saurus with parry 5+) and kill cavalry (spears) and be a good all-arounder (templeguards).
We have PLENTY of magical support and my only suggestion would be to give the Troglodon Oracle a single bound spell.

Obviously what I'm suggesting would be for when our entire my have been balanced and the internal balance is as good as it can be/can be expected. Not before. The issue is though that at that point we're basically covered in what we need. We don't have artillery and adding that would be wrong the way I see it. Adding Saurus Monstrous Cavalry because other army have it isn't exactly super hot either.

For core I'd love to add skink cavalry on Cold Ones like we used to, or well the Horned Ones. Again it can be argued that the unit doesn't really fit a role and especially not one we're in dire need of, but it's a unit that's already available if you dig around and used to be part of the army.

A skink elite unit have several functions:
Several armies have more than 1 elite units and allow for a greater diversity.
It creates another reason to add skink chiefs.
It promotes an active usage of skink wizards.
An elite unit with I4 would promote the usage of a bastiladon (dat I5 in a LM army..)
First skink unit that can take magic banner without the BSB.

On top of that it doesn't take anything away from the army. Templeguards will still be superior in CC and it doesn't take away the shooting capabilities of other skink units. It is, however, a unit that can quickly manouvre the board and be put to use. Give them the +1M banner and they'll be running at M7. So they can quickly cover ground and support other units.

I think I've made a decent case for these to be used. Besides you can use your current skinks with hw/shield and give them a special paint.

 

[The Sauric Ace]

Well, I'm basically tired of never using my Carno models, so my mind set, easily wander into those thoughts

I think your idea is great too It's even worth a kitty cat

PS: I'm really not being sarcastic, I do like your concept of elites skinks; maybe small changes, as already suggested, though.

 

[skink chief]

This again? .______. What about them poor ripperdactyls?

Also a MC unit similar to demigryphs, skullcrushers and mournfangs would be boring to say the least, at least in my opinion. This was why I came up with an elite skink unit. They're something different and have an interesting synergy.

I don't understand this. This would be an addition to the army. Improved skink are well just another skink troop and this at the vost of SW imo. But hey everybody has an own opinion right

 

[Pinktaco]

I was actually thinking that some kind of melee focused skink unit, could be an interesting addition to the core section. I don't know if it fluff wise proper and I am too a saurus fan boy, so I wouldn't want a unit to out shine our SW

My idea would be far more mundane, though.

M6| WS3| BS3| S3| T2| W1| I6| A1| Ld6

I actually like your ideas for special rules, the skink chief, one could be potent. Maybe make them -2AP and then just as my example S3. While T2 is very low, I think they could be an interesting fill the gap kind of melee choice. Maybe use them against slow unit where they would gain the most from their AP, rules and the "high" WS, with a skink chief present?

The +2 Cast for Skink priests is actually a pretty fair addition, with this sort of unit. The problem with this, is that they essential is a jack of all, master of none, type of unit. They're fast, but not that fast, their AP and potential for good Ws, but not that good in combat after all, only 1 attack and, at least in my case, only average Ld (Cold-blooded 6, might be slighty better than 7, though). However I feel like they would surely have there use, if they also had poison, only issue, who would take them without

I like the concept, probably not likely to exist, but I like them!

They don't have to be masters of anything. Their overall profile will make them a very versatile unit with decent stats. Considering that they're T3 (I could go for T2 though) they're just as tough as humans and elves. They'd likely be equally good as great swords from empire (nearly same point, AS and armour reduction). In fact they'd be better since they hit at their own initative, have poison and can shoot.

Also not THAT fast? M6 as base stat for an infantry unit is incredible fast, especially considering how they're actually worth something in close combat. Give them movement banner and hit that M7. They'd be as fast as our Cold One Riders haha.

I'd say 9pts +1pts for poison would be a very good deal, however 10pts + 1pts poison would be alright as well.

 

[Pinktaco]

@skink chief

I've given plenty of reason as to why elite skinks would be a decent unit. A monstrous cavalry saurus unit would:

1) Be the third MC in our army.
2) Be yet another MC to the overall game.
3) Likely make Cold One Riders look even worse.

On top of that I'm yet to see any reasons as to why. Is it because we, like so many others, would like a 2+ monstrous cavalry with 5 attacks at S4-5 with a stomp?

Creating a monstrous cavalry just scream of elite unit that doesn't give any good synergy to the rest of the army. It's just there to bring a lot of pain on it's own.

The unit I proposed, while not perfect, allow for plenty of utility and synergy and is a unit we can easily create without stand-ins.
And lastely your argument is that "this is just improved skinks". Well.. Aren't most elite unit just that? Aren't a monstrous cavalry just that as well compared to regular cavalry? A MC (like how most people would want it) litteraly brings nothing to the board other than a more extreme version of a cavalry unit.

Mostly though I'm tired of seeing people wanting MC. It's not just here, it's also the high elfs, bretonnia and likely others. It's just really not creative. I get the exact same feeling when someone propose heavy MC like when GW released the End Time Khorne guys. They were just 2 variations of chaos warriors with no interesting features. Mostly I want something creative and interesting. If you can come up with an interesting MC that works well with the rest of the army I'm all ears though. I'm not completely unreasonable

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Core Skink Cavalry unit!

That's what we need.

 

[Pinktaco]

Core Skink Cavalry unit!

That's what we need.

I'm not sure if that's what we *need*, but hell yeah I'd take it

Something like: current Cold One stats, skink with spear and shield as an upgrade - I'd be okay with that. Oh and fast cav rule of course.

 

[Pinktaco]

Sneak peak of today should be here any time now <.<

 

[skink chief]

@ pink taco

Your arguments are valid really I do understand where you are coming from. And the special rules were really cool. I as a player just wouldn't like it if skink fighters would outshine sw. We have skink units and bonus they are cheap bunkers. We have saurus as inf blocks and tg as elite inf blocks. We dont need more fighting blocks imo. I want to see saurus being played not skinks thats just it for me probably, just a personal feeling on it.

 

[ASSASSIN_NR_1]

I think some armies that have monstrous cavalry, should not have it (that won't happen of course as the models are already made). MC would just fit Lizardmen IMO as a part of our army is about those lizards riding lizards, big dinos and all that.
Demigryphs for exmaple should not have been made (again IMO), most of that stuff (monsters) empire should not have had, they are humans, in a magic world yes, but still only humans.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Core Skink Cavalry unit!

That's what we need.

I'm not sure if that's what we *need*, but hell yeah I'd take it

I agree that we don't need them in the literal sense but they would give us a couple things that our army is lacking...

• fast cavalry
• more core diversity

Currently our closest fit to a unit like this is our Terradon riders, but I'd really like to see a more complete set of core options.

 

[n810]

If you are going skink cav, give them the ability like they had in "Regiments of the Renown"
something like:
(Jungle miasma) When this unit flees it cannot be pursued.
(Feigned attack) This unit may flee after combat on the turn it charged.
and of course fast cavalry.

 

[The Sauric Ace]

I think some armies that have monstrous cavalry, should not have it (that won't happen of course as the models are already made). MC would just fit Lizardmen IMO as a part of our army is about those lizards riding lizards, big dinos and all that.
Demigryphs for exmaple should not have been made (again IMO), most of that stuff (monsters) empire should not have had, they are humans, in a magic world yes, but still only humans.

Completely agree with you there! If any one should have gotten unit like that, lizardmen would have been ideal, whereas other armies that got them, really didn't fit or needed them.

But Here's my add on, so to say, what about just make Cold One, something a like a mix MC and Cav unit?

Making them a little better offensive, and give them 2 wounds, perhaps. They defiantly looks more menacing than a horse. I know we did talk about this before, and I get that it might not be the time for such drastic changes, I just reckon it could be a nice way of diversifying our army choices from others. Perhaps with an addition of the old Cold One Skink riders as a Fast Cav unit, it could sync well with the army.

 

[The Sauric Ace]

Actually thinking about this change, I believe it might be a great way to deal with a number of issues.

This would increase the potential for COC, it would give them 2W and let's say more killing power, just for the sake of argument. They would, of course, lose the +2AS and go to +3AS, but I reckon that the extra wound solves this, while also giving the unit a unique play style.

This would make the the Cold One a natural more expensive creature for characters, while not granting more than +1 to the overall AS and not even giving any additional wounds. So Cowboys probably not as useful as before

Depending on what they get for their offensive powers, they could serve purpose of different roles. I have little ideas of what is proper and what is just not useful or OP.

My take:

Cold One|M7|Ws3|Bs0|S5|T4|W2|I2|A3|Ld5| Cause fear, Cold-Blooded, Stupidity, Maybe something-something....

 

[skink chief]

Our old bloods and skar vets would be even more powerfull, granted they would lose 1as (wich is for us not a real problem), and being more pts. Other simular troops like demi's do not get the possibility for heroes on these kind of mounts..

Edit* I've always found this a bit stupid though and would like to see this changed. Allowing for instance maximum 1 hero or lord to have a mount like this for the cost would that be so broken?