9th Age Discussion of OpenHammer (ETC) and Ninth Age (Swedish Comp)

Hello guys. It's nice to see a project from my home country see a little recognition, so I've gone over the Lizardmen army list in the still untranslated Openhammer compendium and compiled for you the main changes.

-General stuff:
Cold Blooded is still there, it's just not indicated in the unit profiles to save space.
Predatory Fighter is completely gone, for some reason.
All Lizardmen units add +1d6 to their vision when Night Fighting rules are in play.
All instances of Aquatic have been replaced by Strider(rivers and lakes), which is pretty much the same thing.
All skinks gain Poisoned Attacks for free.
New special rule, Veteran: once per game the unit can reroll all failed To Hit and To Wound rolls until the end of the phase.
Notes on weapons: a second hand weapon now gives -1WS but can be taken while mounted, great weapons give -2 Initiative instead of ASL, pikes are like two-handed spears that also give +1S when charged from the front.
Monster, Monstrous Infantry etc. no longer get Stomp/Thunderstomp, most get Impact Hit to compensate.

-Slann Mage-Priest:
Cost increased to 310
Gained +1 I and A
Lost all previous special rules, replaced by Strider (rivers and lakes) and Poisoned Attacks
No more Disciplines of the Old Ones but can be upgraded to level 5 for 50 pts

-Oldblood:
Cost increased to 170
Gained +1 I
Gained Veteran but Scaly Hide nerfed to 5+
Changed equipment costs: AHW for 4pts, spear 6pts, halberd 8pts, great weapon 12pts, light armor and shield both 4pts
Can now also take a large shield (+2 armor save) for 8pts
Cost of mounts reduced to 20pts for Cold One and 200 for Carnosaur

-Scar-Veteran:
Cost increased to 95
Gained Veteran
Cost of equipment same as Oldblood

-Skink Chief:
Cost increased to 45
Gained Poisoned Attacks
Can now have both a melee and a ranged weapon
Blowpipe, javelins and spear cost 4pts
Can mount a Cold One for 20pts
Cost to mount a Terradon or Ripperdactyl decreased to 30 and 35pts respectively, cost for the Stegadon reduced to 200
Can no longer be the army's BSB

-Skink Priest:
-1 Ld
Gained Poisoned Attacks
Lost access to the Lore of Beasts but Gained the Lore of Light and the all-new priestly Domain of Water
Can take a javelin or blowpipe for 2pts
Can mount a Troglodon for 150pts, a regular Stegodon for 200pts or a Terradon for 30pts

-Saurus Warriors:
+1 I, -1 Ld
No longer have shields by default
Can take shields for 1pt/model, large shields for 3pts/model or pikes for 1pt/model, can no longer have spears

-Skink Cohorts:
Size 20+
Get Poisoned Attacks for free but no longer have javelins by default, can get them back at +1pt/model
Kroxigors upped to 55pts each and you can take one every 10 instead of every 8
Kroxigors now must always be in the front row
Spells and shooting attacks hit a Kroxigor on a roll of 1-4 and a Skink on a 5-6 instead of the opposite

-Jungle Swarms:
Cost reduced to 30pts
+1M +2I -2W -2A -5Ld
Lost "They're Everywhere!", gained Immune to Psychology, Skirmisher, Forest Strider and enemies have a -1 on all attacks against them

-Skink Skirmishers:
Gained Vanguard and Poisoned Attacks, can have a musician and a standard bearer

-Chameleon Skinks:
Cost reduced to 11pts
Gained Poisoned Attacks
Chameleons now just improves cover saves

-Terradon Riders:
Cost decreased to 30pts
Terradons get +1 I
Lost Fear, gained Strider (rivers and lakes), riders have Poisoned Attacks
Get shields for free but can no longer take fireleech bolas
Rocks can be dropped every turn instead of once per game

-Ripperdactyl Riders:
Cost decreased to 35pts
Ripeprdactyls get +1WS
Lost Toad Rag and Killing Blow, riders get Frenzy too and also Poisoned Attacks


-Kroxigors:
Cost increased to 55
+1I, -1 Ld
Lost Strider, gained Impact Hit (1)
Can replace great weapons with halberds for free
Kroxigor Ancient now costs 15pts

-Temple Guards:
Cost increased to 15pts
-1 Ld
Lost Sacred Duty and Guardians, gained Veteran
No longer come with shields, can take shields at +1pt/model or large shields at +3pts/model

-Cold One Riders:
Cost reduced to 28pts
-1 Ld
Come with spears by default
Can take a magic standard

-Skink Cavalry:
A blast from the past. They're just skinks with spears and shields on Cold Ones, 20pts each, size 5+, can take a magic standard

-Stegadon:
Cost reduced to 210
Lost Stubborn, Impact Hits reduced to d3, crew gained Poisoned Attacks
Giant Bow must be bought for 10pts but now ignores armor
Can no longer take Sharp Horns or Unstoppable Stampede but by default it gets +1S on the charge and its Impact Hits cause d3 wounds

-Ancient Stegadon
Disappeared for the moment

-Bastiladon:
Cost increased to 175
Gained +2M and +1S
Lost Impervious Defence and Always Strikes Last, gained Impact Hits (d3) and Immune to Psychology, crew gets Poisoned Attacks
Thunderous Bludgeon no longer targets only the rear arc and also caused d3 wounds
The entire Ark of Sotek/Solar engine thingy has been replaced by the ability to cast Banishment from the Lore of Light

-Troglodon:
No longer available as a stand-alone choice, only as a mount for a Skink Priest
Lost Strider, Arcane Vessel and Primeval Roar, gained Immune to Psychology and Impact hits (d3)
Spit Venom had Multiple Wounds (d3) replaced with Multiple Shots (d6)

-Salamanders/Razordons:
Salamander cost reduced to 70
No longer have handlers or any related rules
Lost Strider and gained Impact Hit (1)
Fire Spout now works exactly like a Fire Thrower, which in Openhammer can hit distant targets similarly to the Torrent rule from 40k
Shooting Barbs gained Multiple Shots (d6)

-Carnosaur:
+1WS
Already starts Frenzied
Gained Impact Hits (d3)
Can no longer take Bloodroar or Loping Stride

-Cold One:
Exactly identical

TL,DR: Skink power!

 

I seriously don't understand the -1 LD, it just doesn't make sense.

There are some good ideas there, but I don't like all of it, but I guess that's normal.

I don't like that monsters got nerfed

 

@Hoss, thanks for the translating.

There are a few good ideas in that but a slew of new problems. Case in point:

I am a little confused by why a flying creature needs water strider, but OK.

I could live with the rock drop every turn (even though it is too good) since it is simpler to track. BUT DISALLOWING THE BOLAS IS A NON-STARTER. And I say that as a collector who owns NONE, REPEAT NONE, of the plastic terradon models that can be built that way. But speaking for any who do, and did build them that way:

DO NOT MAKE PEOPLE'S MODELS OBSOLETE, when fixing the rules. Attack the silly rules, yes, but leave the models alone.

Feel free to pass that feedback back to the source.

 

That is awesome! Where did you find this info?

That is horrible. So the Slann is just a regular wizard now who can be upgraded to level 5?

Stegadons losing stubborn is a huge nerf.

I'm not impressed with ETC to be honest.

 

Yes, a lot of changes seem pretty weird, like the cut of Predatory Fighter and the Ancient Stegadon. Still the compendium gets updated regularly with new units and rules and I'm sure they're gonna have a complete version with a lot more stuff before ETC.
Anyway, I completely forgot an important detail: Poisoned Attacks has been completely reworked, now at the end of the phase a model who has suffered one or more wounds from poisoned attacks must take a Toughness test for every wound, with each fail causing an automatic wound with no armor saves allowed.
For the sake of completeness I'm also posting the new Domain of Water priests and Slanns get.

Signature Spell - Snowstorm (Cast on 5+/10+/15+, Range 24/36/48, Type: Attack, Duration: Instant)
Target enemy unit takes 1d6/2d6/3d6 Strength 3 hits with the Frost Attacks special rule (a unit that suffers one or more casualties from frost attacks suffer -1 Movement and Initiative until the end of the turn, Undead are immune).

1 - Water to Ice (Cast on 8+, Range 18, Type: Alteration, Duration: Instant)
This prayer targets a terrain feature containing water (lake, river, sea etc.). The target counts as open terrain for the rest of the game. All units even partially inside when the spell is cast halve their Movement for the next turn. Casting this prayer again will cause all enemy units on the terrain feature to take hits as if hit by a basic level Snowstorm.

2 - Dehydratation (Cast on 9+/18+, Range 12/All enemies within 12, Type: Alteration, Duration: until caster's next magc phase)
Target enemy unit is count as being Fatigued (-1 Strength). If the target is already Fatigued they instead suffer -1 Toughness.

3 - Rain (Cast on 9+, Type: Evocation, Duration: stays in play)
if current weather is not Rain it counts as Rain until the spell is dispelled. If it is Rain you can make it count as Snow.
(Openhammer includes modifiers for weather. Rain gives all units -1M and BS, immobilizes warmachines and causes hills to count as difficult terrain, Snow gives -2M and -1BS and causes hills to count as difficult terrain and water features to count as open terrain)

4 - Water Elemental (Cast on 13+, Range 12, Type: Evocation, Duration: Instant)
Creates a friendly Monster with the Water Elemental special rule and the following stats: M6 WS4 BS3 S5 T4 W3 I4 A3 Ld9.
(Water Elemental: Frost Attacks, Magic Attacks, Causes Fear, can only be wounded by magic, immune to Fatigue, immune to Poisoned Attacks, immune to Water domain spells and prayers and any attack with the Frost Attacks special rule, Vulnerable to Fire, Hates Earth Elementals)

5 - Icewall (Cast on a 14+, Range 18, Type: Evocation, Duration: stays in play)
Creates a 6" long 1" wide barrier that counts as impassable terrain and blocks line of sight with Height 3.

6 - Killer Hail (Cast on a 14+/19+, Range 24/48, Type: Attack, Duration: Instant)
The caster makes a shooting attack as if he were a stone thrower, using the 3"/5" circular template. All hits have the Frost Attacks special rule.

If there is anything else you want translated I'm always available.

 

Im pretty sure neither openhammer or 9th age are supported by ETC.

 

Talk about winning a chaff/movement war.

 

Ok, it looks like they want to simplify units. It's good for competitive game, because it is much easier to make a balanced point system, but it looks like fluffy rules are gone, at lest for now. I really don't like it. I like to compete with others, but since I suck in most games, I need something else to keep me from rage quiting. Those were all those fluff rules which were both: good and funny (Like rippers, or snacks for salamanders).

 

Really not a fan of that list. Openahammer in general is not really appealing at all to me. 9th age on the other hand looks very good

 

It would be hard NOT to agree with this. Looks like Sweds are changing less things. I'm curious about how they will see Lizardmen, but after looking at Beastmen I'm excited to see rest of the armys (although I never played beastmen and don't know their army too well)

 

Great work, mate! it's nice to see what the different groups are trying to brew up.

I have to join the choir that is disliking most of these changes. Sadly, because it seems like such a massive work being put into this openhammer project, and I'll hat to be just another person sitting in the back and just not approving of the work.

To the point though: I really hate, or more properly dislike, the -1Ld, if I should ever consider playing this system, I would need a darn good explanation (Yes I wrote darn, I swear that way ) from them. It just feels like they are trying to devaluing the one advantage most of our warriors had compared to others. Are they also devaluing Ld in general, or do they only feel it's necessary doing it against the lizards?
I believe Pinktaco wrote that they weren't really touching other strong infantry; example was that Chaos Warriors remained same price and same state line, while Sarurus Warrior is nerfed down (For what reason exactly, they weren't superior to begin with) and same price...
No I do not like this! Saurus Warriors and Temple Guards are among my favourite models, don't make them even worse then they are now!

 

9th age has updated the miscast table, i kinda like it.

 

There you go...

 

Beastmen and Lizardmen are my two armies. What they did to beastmen makes them playable and very strong at first glance IMO. Love almost all of the changes

 

Most of the non-elites units in all armies got a -1 Ld, fortunately it's not a Lizard only thing. They did a real number on Beastmen to compensate for the return of the new and improved chaos marks.

They actually are 1 point cheaper by default but the army as a whole was nerfed by the loss of Eye of the God and the fact now the general'sand th BSB's leadership bubbles don't work on units with a different mark.
As I already wrote they've been revising and adding stuff costantly, for example with the last update they added a super-cheap marauder chieftain to Chaos and a generic centigor hero to Beastmen.

I doubt the mods would be happy but I can translate the Openhammer beastmen list if you want.

 

MISCAST
Roll 2D6 and apply the table below. Apply the result in this table according to the number of Power Dice used (PDU) for the casting roll resulting in a miscast.



2-4

Centre the 5" template on the caster. Each model under takes a hit with strength equal to PDU+2 (no armour saves allowed).

The caster may not use look out sir or any kind saves.

If 4 or 5 power dice was used, the caster is dead, so saves of any kind.

If 3 or less power dice was used, remove PDU power dice from the power pool


5-6

Centre the 5" template on the caster. Each model under takes a hit with strength equal to PDU+2 (no armour saves allowed).

The caster may not use look out sir or any kind saves.

Remove PDU power dice from the power pool


7

The caster's unit suffers PDU hits with strength equal to PDU+2 - the hits are distributed like shooting.

Remove PDU power dice from the power pool


8-9

The caster and each friendly model that can channel or generate power or dispel dice takes a hit with strength equal to PDU+2, with no saves (of any kind) allowed.

Remove PDU dice from the power pool.


10-12

The caster's Wizard level is reduced by PDU-2, he loses one spell for each level lost (starting with the miscast spell, randomizing the rest).

Remove PDU power dice from the power pool

 

This just sounds a bit weird to me, considering that temple guards also got downgraded state wise and are still just as costly. Now without shield even... :S
I don't really get what needed to be balanced in our army so much that pretty much every unit needed a debuff in state or special ability. Aren't lizardmen generally assumed to be a more well balanced army? I mean I understand buffing Beasties and downgrading Chaos Warriors, but why lizards?

 

They did a bit of an overhaul on morale and leadership, with things like Immune to Psychology applying to any Leadership test except Break tests, the BSB only giving rerolls on Break tests and a lot of new modifiers to combat result, it's not that strange that they are changing values around for a lot of models. Or maybe they just don't like temple guards.

 

I agree. Lizardmen are one of the more balanced mid-tier armies. A few units needed a points increase (cowboys) while a few units needed a points decrease (Troglodon), but for the most part I think most or our stuff (in terms of power & points cost) should have stayed the same. Unless there is some major BRB changes that necessitates these nerfs, I'm a bit confused by their modifications.