Discussion Do they Sky Titans have a direct Old Ones connection?

[Scalenex]

Are the now extinct Sky Titans direct descendants of the Old Ones? Do they have any other direct connection to the Old Ones. That came up as a tangent in another discussion, but I thought the idea was interesting enough to warrant it's own discussion.

@Warden This is exactly the type of conversation that gets me excited for painting and truly upset that GW through all that history to the wayside for AoS. Anyway, enough of the past. You jumped into my head on this! The Magog story was going along the same line of thought, that the first Chaos incursion came with the coming of the Slann, and thus caused the first major destruction of the world and the definitive destruction of the Old Ones, the Giants.

wait, are you suggesting that the giants could be the descendants of the Old Ones??? I have never heard this before, if this is something from the old lore I must have missed this!! I know there was a race of storm-giants living up in the not-Himalayas in warhammer that were eaten to death by the ogres, but aside from that, this is an interesting theory if that is what you are suggesting?!

Old Ones = Literal Giants?

This is a good concept. Hey, @Spawningofbob, @thedarkfourth, @Bowser, anyone feel like "borrowing" this idea?
I would, but of my two stories, one has already had an old one in it, and the other is an exploration of how I want the Aos fluff to work.

Wait, 'storm giants' sound a fair bit like how the dragon ogres got their thing for lightening.

I always have good ideas when I cant use them. Humph.

I won't be writing for the old ones anytime soon. I don’t see a need for them. If I do write them they will be more like the Irkens from invader Zim. Complete fools with technology too advanced for them to do anything with. The leader is the tallest, and the slann were given a fake mission just to get rid of them and or toy with them.

That being said it is a great concept for anyone who does want to write for the old ones. It would make for a fantastic story arc.

The Old Ones came and terraformed the mahrlect out of the world when it was an ice world dominated by dragons, fimir and shaggoths (I think). The Old Ones spawned the First (us - yay!) then the other "orderly" races (up to ogres and halflings) and everything was sweet with a multi race society until the coming of Chaos (unless you read @Otzi'mandias's stuff and I suggest you do).

Then a bunch of stuff happened for eight thousand years and the world blew up. Nothing important happens after that

 

[pendrake]

Umm, who / when were the Sky Titans? Said the Griffin who is notorious for skimming past fluff in army books. (And I never bought any of the End Time books).

 

[Scalenex]

They are covered in the Big Red Book. They were giants, really big, really smart really advanced giants that lived in the eastern mountain ranges. Probably is they were loners so they didn't work together. When the Ogres made their migration westward, the Sky Titans were in their way. They thought "Let's eat these titans and take their stuff."

A lot of Ogres best war machines and weapons are basically salvaged from the Sky Titan's trash heaps. How did the stupid Ogres beat them? Because the Sky Titans were loners and didn't cooperate their defenses until it was far too late.

Games Workshop basically wanted to have a noble and wise people overcome by barbarians because that's their schtick.

 

[Xholankha the lost one]

well in a book i have just read, sky titans do exist but are:
a) dwindiling and dying out
b) they live in albion
c) some are tainted by chaos

the origional concept of a sky titan was to protect sites of great power,
the forge of the old ones
the Oogham stones
etc etc

yes there were many sky giants around the world but like you said most were killed by the ogres and some fled to locations unknows(ind, or nippon?)
but they mainly dwell in albion hence why it is called a dangerous and mystic island.

 

[Otzi'mandias]

What kind of attitude do Sky titans have to outsiders? Is it a "Kill them all!" approach or is it more peaceful?

 

[Scalenex]

What kind of attitude do Sky titans have to outsiders? Is it a "Kill them all!" approach or is it more peaceful?

I'm pretty sure their response to outsiders is "Hey you! Get off of my lawn!" But they don't really care about anything outside their territory and don't bother people who don't bother them.

 

[Warden]

I'm pretty sure their response to outsiders is "Hey you! Get off of my lawn!" But they don't really care about anything outside their territory and don't bother people who don't bother them.

Isn't that @Crowsfoot 's line?

Is there any lore that states where the giants come from, other than the debased descendants of the sky-titans of the mountains of mourn? Lizardmen were created by the Old Ones, then they made Elves, Dwarves, Humans, later Ogres and Halflings in a half-ditched attempt to stave off the forces of chaos. Orks (just kidding) Orcs and Goblins showed up from outer-space spores or something, skaven and beastmen are mutant abberations, where do the sky titans fit in?

I always imagined the sky-titans are similar to the ancient greek gods like Zeus, Athena, and the other gods on Mt. Olympus, but since in the WH world they are located in the not-Himalayas they would have a Tibetan vibe (think awesome houses like the Potala Palace)

Spoiler: Potala Palace in Tibet

But where did they come from? Are they another attempt of the Old Ones' to defeat the powers of Chaos, OR are they the old ones just hidden away from the rest of the world?

The chaos gods defeated the Old Ones, and the Old Ones disappeared, but maybe they didn't go into space and just hid themselves away on top of the most inhospitable location on the world, on top of mile-high mountains far from the weeping sores of the broken polar gates. Stripped of their powers, they just spent their time making art and tiny Buddha statues, until some hungry ogres showed up and destroyed their fortresses of solitude...

But if the surviving Old Ones marooned on the planet just went into hiding, why didn't the slann ever make contact with them? Maybe the slann didn't realize some of the Old Ones remained on the planet?

So many questions...

 

[Crowsfoot]

Isn't that @Crowsfoot 's line?

Too polite for me......

 

[n810]

I believe Dragons and possibly Sky Titians where the original inhabitants of Warhammer world.

 

[Otzi'mandias]

The chaos gods defeated the Old Ones, and the Old Ones disappeared, but maybe they didn't go into space and just hid themselves away on top of the most inhospitable location on the world, on top of mile-high mountains far from the weeping sores of the broken polar gates. Stripped of their powers, they just spent their time making art and tiny Buddha statues, until some hungry ogres showed up and destroyed their fortresses of solitude...

But if the surviving Old Ones marooned on the planet just went into hiding, why didn't the slann ever make contact with them? Maybe the slann didn't realize some of the Old Ones remained on the planet?

So many questions...

Aargh! Why! I desperately need to do revision and you throw that amazing idea in my face! My fingers are itching to start typing! Why! Why me!?

 

[pendrake]

This all seems like a multi level marketing retconning scheme.

Originally Ogres were these creatures of fantasy that existed in a fantasy world for the same reason there are trolls and hippogriffs. There could be units of them. Either as mercenaries or as auxiliaries for The Empire.

Then somebody had the bright idea that the Ogres needed to be their own army. A Retcon level later they originated somewhere beyond the mountains and toward Cathay. Second retcon level later there's a war with the Cloud Giants who are Sky Titans by another name.

 

[Warden]

I believe Dragons and possibly Sky Titians where the original inhabitants of Warhammer world.

That might very well be true. Looking at some of the wiki sources (sadly I don't have copies of either High Elf or Ogre Kingdoms) it looks like the original inhabitants of the warhammer world were:

dragons (probably the first intelligent beings in the warhammer world, albeit not humanoid)
dragon ogre-shaggoths (corrupted dragons who sold their souls to the forces of chaos before the chaos gods were unleashed upon the world, see picture...)

and various other giant beasties like:

dinosaurs (ancestors of the Lustrian stegadons, carnosaurs, thunder lizards, etc) running around in some equatorial jungles, and
mammoths and stonehorns running around the rest of the world which was trapped in an ice age.

I haven't found anything specific about giants though, or specifically where sky titans came from in the lore, other than what has already been posted from the Ogre Kingdoms book. From a non-fluff perspective I think what @pendrake said is right, they were retconned into the background to give the ogres someone noble to munch on as they plowed their way through the mountains of mourn.

Anyone have access to stuff from the old Albion campaign? They had a lot of giants running around making stone circles in the lore (Ogham Circles), I am curious to see if that campaign had anything else to add for where giants came from.

 

[pendrake]

There was something about Albion giants being particularly, extra dim. (Check for stupidity on three dice?) And they could chuck boulders; they were walking catapults.

There was fluff about them hurling boulders from the cliffs to drive off ships.

 

[Otzi'mandias]

But if the surviving Old Ones marooned on the planet just went into hiding, why didn't the slann ever make contact with them? Maybe the slann didn't realize some of the Old Ones remained on the planet?

So many questions...

There was this thing that happened with a British or American explorer, who landed on an island and was worshipped as a god by the local tribes. He lived the high life. Then, when he tried to leave, his ship got blown back into the bay. This proved he wasnt a god in the eyes of the natives. He got eaten as a punishment. Make of that little story what you will.

Edit - it was a famous British explorer named Captain Cook. Google it or something.

 

[pendrake]

There was this thing that happened with a British or American explorer, who landed on an island and was worshipped as a god by the local tribes. He lived the high life. Then, when he tried to leave, his ship got blown back into the bay. This proved he wasnt a god in the eyes of the natives. He got eaten as a punishment. Make of that little story what you will.

That was a misscharacterization at best:
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/captain-cook-killed-in-hawaii

 

[Otzi'mandias]

Oh.
It's still a valid point about the old ones and the slann, though.

 

[SlanntaClause]

Another enlightening conversation and an intriguing one I like the sound of these Sky Titans