8th Ed. Dreadgrass's Dastardly Detatchment (2500pts concept list)

[Dreadgrass]

Hi all,

Tinkering with a list atm and am in need of both general advise and suggestions on what to spend my remaining points on.

LORDS - 445pts

Slann Mage Priest - BSB
- Focus of Mystery, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone
- Dragonbane Gem, Banner of Discipline, Channelling staff
Pretty Standard, Joins a Skink Skirmisher unit for a bunker to limit fallout from miscasts. Thinking about grabbing the Dragonbane Gem or MR2 on him depending on use of leftover points

HEROES - 185pts

Skink Priest - Lvl.1, D. Scroll
Skink Priest - Lvl.1, Cube of Darkness
Again, pretty standard. At this stage looking at Using Heavens on them, but could make them lvl.2 and Use Beasts Depending on points. Also thinking about some cowboys with my spare points but not sure if they'd be more useful than a dedicated combat block in this list.

CORE - 630pts

50x Skinks (cohort) with Poison, Standard and Musician
10x Skinks (cohort) with Musician
10x Skinks (cohort) with Musician
10x Skinks (Skirmishers)
10x Skinks (Skirmishers)
The big block of skinks is one of my "concept" units. Idea being the weight of fire from my early magic phase + substantial shooting + Stand and Shoot should whittle back a lot of opponents to a manageable level. Can also essentially act as a "Tarpit with Teeth" to cripple elite units with quality attacks. As for the rest the cohorts are for re-directing/chaff duties and the skirmishers are for slann protection (1 bunkers, the other screens/ shoots up things in my backlines)

SPECIAL - 195pts

5x Skinks (Chameleon)
5x Skinks (Chameleon)
5x Skinks (Chameleon)
The rest of my chaff. Can hunt down warmachines, shoot up enemy chaff and potentially jump under the proverbial bus for the mainline units.

RARE - 600pts

1x Salamander with extra ration (crew)
8x Razordons
Salamander is for super-chaff duties with a nice template attack. Razors are the other unit filling my "concept" with weight of fire, a nasty stand and shoot, and decent combat abilities (16 S5 and 24 S3 attacks + stomps that can pile into an enemies 100mm frontage unit not to mention probably being one of our toughest options with their "handler wardsaves")

As said above, this list is very much about units with multiple roles (which is where I feel Lizzies are really pointed) The slann and 2 big units will focus on weakening the enemies mainline threats for the first few turns, with the slann hopefully picking up Miasma and Wildform with the lore attribute. The Razordons and mega-cohort both benefit immensely from Hand of Glory, Miasma and Wildform/s and whilst they may not be the best combat units, they also shouldn't be fighting anything that hasn't already had it's numbers dropped (hopefully significantly). Large units are good targets for Tempest/ convocation, whilst MMU/MSU style builds should really feel the pinch from the shooting phase. My biggest concern left I feel is high armour save units such as most monstrous cav...

This so far leaves me with 445pts in my pocket. Options I've come up with so far include:

Getting a block of Temple Guard for a strong backbone/ dedicated combat block.
Getting some Jungle Swarms (because swarms + Razors could be mighty tasty)
Grabbing a Saurus block, probably alongside dropping the 2 small cohorts and adding some Terradons.
Cowboys
a baby-steg/Bastiladon or 2 (cannons are going to focus my slann at the moment)

 

[Shadoer]

Re: Dreadgrass's Dastardly Detatchment (2500pts concept list

Alright here are my thoughts

1. Cameo Skinks

Cameo Skinks are great, but 3 are overkill. Like you aren't fielding any monsters, so their usefulness to hitting warmachines is already a bit low. Also since you have two units of Skink Skirmishers already I find it difficult to see you having a use for 3 units of Cameo Skinks. Think about dropping 1 or 2 of them from the list and using the points for something else.

2. Magic

Acording you the logic of this list, you are depending a LOT on some very successful, power dice draining, magic phases. In order to help generate the power dice you'll need to make this work, you likely need to put Eldritch Resevoir on your Slann to try and get an extra poer die. Also you might want to consider fitting in a Power Stone onto one of your Skinks instead of the Cube.

3. Can Opener Needed

Right now you desperatly need a Can Opener, something to deal with heavily armoured units like Empire Gryph Knights or Chaos Juggernaughts. Out of the options you listed, your best bet is a unit of Temple Guard with the Razor Standard. That should give a strong fighting chance against heavily armoured opponents.

 

[Dreadgrass]

Re: Dreadgrass's Dastardly Detatchment (2500pts concept list

Thanks for the reply Shadoer!

re: Camo's - I've grabbed 3 units for their tactical flexibility. You need 18 shots (9 skinks double-tapping) to bring down most warmachines with 1 volley on averages. By bringing them in multiple small units it creates redundancy (1 unit dies/panics, the other 2 can still do the job).

Also, a unit of 5 camo's is cheaper than 10 skirmishers, more maneuverable, and can scout. In this way I feel they can do pretty much everything a small cohort or skirmisher unit can do but better.

Finally, my 2 skirmisher units aren't going to be filling the typical roles. They will be protecting the slann and Priests in my backlines as adaptable bunkers with the real chaff/redirecting jobs going to the small cohorts and the camos.

re: Magic - I agree that Reservoir is a good bet, will put that on my list of things to consider for the spare points. My magic phase for the first few rounds will essentially be an extension of my shooting phase, with Hand of Glory on the Razors being probably top priority along with picking up a few spell-swaps whilst thinning the enemy lines with the offensive spells. Apotheosis and Arcane Unforging could also be swapped potentially but healing the Razordons/ any wounds the slann takes is pretty handy, as is the item-sniping potential of Unforging.

Once combat hits, it's about having redundancy. Miasma and HoG Can both fill a similar purpose, and add in a Wildform or 2 to really give the opponent too many choices. Any 1 of those 3 buffs can really help my 2 main blocks with their major failings, so it's not so much about trying to get multiple spells off, but having enough spells to throw so something gets through, without resorting to 6 dicing.

In a nutshell, I want to draw the enemies D.Scroll early with Arcane Unforging or Convocation. This will make it a straight PD VS DD battle where I SHOULD (hopefully) have superiority due to the better potential for bonus dice, and having multiple spells that can do the same trick. It's kinda like the old Light magic slann, you were very unlikely to get all 3 of the super buffs off, but by having the 3 you could more often than not push 1 through.

re: Can Openers - I agree 100%! I need something to take on high-save enemies. Wildform can only go so far and be relied upon only so much (Strength 6 on the Razors in combat could be decent though). As another option, what do people think of 2-3 Cowboys? They are again a nice multi-function unit and I can either pile them all into a particularly tough enemy like D.Griff's/Mournfang cav./BloodCrushers/etc. or split them up to trouble-shoot multiple smaller threats...? They can also keep up with the rest of the army a bit better and make sure they get to their target with their high movement.

 

[Dreadgrass]

Re: Dreadgrass's Dastardly Detatchment (2500pts concept list

Been looking at a few options, what do people think of:

- Upgrading the 2 Priests to Lvl.2 and making them Beasts
Adding Resevoir of Eldritch Energy to Slann
Gives me a more solid magic phase. Also means the slann isn't desperate for Wildform and there are several useful spells in Beasts besides.
- Add Scarvet - Cold One, Great Weapon, Light Armour, Dragonhelm, Opal Amulet
- Add Scarvet - Cold One, Great Weapon, Gamblers Armour, Luckstone
Adds some mobile S7 beatsticks with good saves.
- Add Skink Chief - Light Armour, Shield, Javelin, Eggo of Quango, Shrieking Blade
Can join the mega-cohort to give it more damage output and make it cause fear, can also hunt Ethereals and the like.

That leaves me with 10 points to burn.... thoughts?

 

[Lizardmatt]

Re: Dreadgrass's Dastardly Detatchment (2500pts concept list

Been looking at a few options, what do people think of:

- Upgrading the 2 Priests to Lvl.2 and making them Beasts
Adding Resevoir of Eldritch Energy to Slann
Gives me a more solid magic phase. Also means the slann isn't desperate for Wildform and there are several useful spells in Beasts besides.
- Add Scarvet - Cold One, Great Weapon, Light Armour, Dragonhelm, Opal Amulet
- Add Scarvet - Cold One, Great Weapon, Gamblers Armour, Luckstone
Adds some mobile S7 beatsticks with good saves.
- Add Skink Chief - Light Armour, Shield, Javelin, Eggo of Quango, Shrieking Blade
Can join the mega-cohort to give it more damage output and make it cause fear, can also hunt Ethereals and the like.

That leaves me with 10 points to burn.... thoughts?

I'd get something into the air. With 2 cowboys and a stand off army, I would worry about the cowboys getting sniped. I'd keep the cowboys, but maybe stick with level 1's and heavens on the skinks. Points save go toward rippers.

-Matt

 

[Scalenex]

Re: Dreadgrass's Dastardly Detatchment (2500pts concept list

When you play this, please post a battle report. As far as I can tell, not many LM players have been running Skink heavy lists since we got the new book.

 

[Dreadgrass]

Re: Dreadgrass's Dastardly Detatchment (2500pts concept list

Got a 1500pt version I should be giving a run against High Elves sometime in the next day or so. List planned so far is:

Slann - BSB, Focus of Mystery, Banner of Discipline
Skink Priest (lvl.1 Beasts) - D. Scroll

40x Poison Cohort - standard, Mus.
10x Cohort
10x Cohort
10x Skirmishers

3x Ripperdactyls
3x Ripperdactyls

5x Razordons

1500pts exactly.

 

[Dreadgrass]

Re: Dreadgrass's Dastardly Detatchment (2500pts concept list

So, had 2 games with the above list (1500pts) against High Elves, my opponent was still relatively new to the game so we were both "trying out" a lot of things. She ran a fairly shooty army in both games with seaguard, maidenguard, the swordmaster lord choice and some other units that changed between the games. I took pretty heavy damage from the massed bowfire and magic missiles but managed a solid victory both times.

General observations:

Magic - All I can say is I was surprised how good her swordmaster with the Book of Hoeth was. All those low-cost signature spells combined with the re-rolls put her onpar with (possibly even surpassing) my slann/ skink Priest combo. I managed 3 worthwhile spells between the 2 games (though my powerdice rolls were pretty insignificant tbh) with a Tempest cast on a 40+ strong unit of seaguard to weaken them down a bit, a successful casting of Hand of Glory on the Razordons to amp them up to BS5 (which was awesome) and a casting of a boosted HoG on the razors whilst they were already in combat, boosting them to WS6 and I6 (no rerolls for you elfsies!)

Poison skinks - Probably one of their least-favourite matchups with the huge number of re-rollable attacks exploiting my low WS/T and my poison not counting for a whole lot. They ended up dukeing it out with the seaguard both games after both units getting pretty heavily shot up. That said they performed quite well regardless, though I think the unit of 50 in the 2500pt list will hold up better as I took a few too many casualties for a "horde" setup to be very useful beyond the shooting applications.. Starting to be concerned about large template attacks on them as well... wondering if an "umbrella" skink chief with Ironcurse Icon and some MR could be decent for them to help mitigate the risk. alternately, could slap the items on one of my priests and join him to the unit for a double-duty approach.

Razordons - I loved them. My rolls for number of shots were abysmal (averaged ~ 15 shots + a misfire every time I shot bar once, where I had 30+ shots, ~20ish hits... and wounded 3 times... against T3 elves...) but they were tough and hard to shift when in range of the slann. Add to that the decent combat stats and the lessening of the enemies ranks with Ripperdactyls and shooting before it came to combat and they were a real dependable anvil for the rest of my army to work around.

Overall I feel that despite my mediocre luck (at best) the units performed as I had hoped, and with the added support elements of the 2500pt list I'm pleasantly optimistic of their performance in a more competitive setting. Have a few plans for the 2500pt list I'm ironing out atm, will post up an slightly revised list soonish.

 

[Dreadgrass]

Re: Dreadgrass's Dastardly Detatchment (2500pts concept list

So been tinkering with the list and have come up with 2 new alternative builds, 1st The stuff that will stay the same for both:

LORDS - 465pts

Slann - BSB, Focus of Mystery, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone, Reservoir of Eldritch Energy, Standard of Discipline, Channelling Staff
Starting to feel that reservoir really ups the effectiveness of the Harmonic-channelling setup, Between channels and storing a dice you can average +2 Power Dice which can be a huge difference, especially in a low dice phase.

HEROES - 185pts

Skink Priest - lvl.1, Dispel Scroll
Skink Priest - lvl.1, Cube of Darkness
Still tossing up which lore to run these 2 at. Wildform is great (and gets it's lore attribute when using it on Razors which is nice) but Iceshard can help at pretty much every stage of the game.

CORE - 630pts

50x Skink Cohort w/ Poison, standard, Musician
10x Skink Cohort
10x Skink Cohort
10x Skink Skirmishers
10x Skink Skirmishers
Pretty much same plans as before. Skirmishers for a bunker/ backfield defence, cohorts for chaff. and big block of poisoned skinky goodness.

SPECIAL - 195pts

5x Chamo skinks
5x Chamo skinks
5x Chamo skinks
Chaff and Warmachine Hunting

RARE - 520pts

8x Razordons
Same as before.

The options Are:

1) Add:

1x Skink Chief - Terradon, Javelin, Light Armour, Shield, Biting Blade, Dragonhelm, Egg of Quango
1x Skink Chief - Terradon, Javelin, Light Armour, Relic Sword, Enchanted Shield, Horn of Kygor
2 fast, magical attacks wielding characters each with a handy support item. Horn of Kygor will try and stay close to the Razordons for the tasty bonus attacks (not sure if handlers would gain attacks as well as they're part of the model which is classed as "monstrous Beast" Presuming not at this stage.).

+1 magic level for one of the scroll caddies, make him use Lore of Beasts.

4x Kroxigor - Champion
Gives some high strength attacks to the army, will probably hide behind razordons and charge in to support them after they take the charge.

2) Add:

Skink Chief - Spear, Light Armour, Horn of Kygor, Charmed Shield, Ancient Stegadon - Sharpened Horns
Will shelter behind the Razors then charge in to support whilst popping the horn for a big boost to the following combat, or can be moved to a tasty flanking position with Walk between worlds. Also means I can fit an Ancient Steg and a big block of Razordons into the same list without any serious compromise.

3x Kroxigor - Champion
Some more high strength attacks, will probably try and act more as a detachment to the skinks in this list, trying to get some flank support in.

+2 Handlers for Razordons
Spare snacks straight from the "loose change" menu.

So basically the first list obviously has more speed and some magical attacks whilst the 2nd takes a 2nd hammer unit. Also open to other suggestions of course... Thoughts?