8th Ed. Drop rocks: Shooting or not?

[Kor-Lot-Ko]

I was wondering, do a teradon's drop-rocks attack count as a shooting attack? A friend of mine plays vampire counts, and he either gave his vamp lord a power which gives him a ward save vs shooting, or gave the unit he is in a banner that does the same thing. I think it would have effect against drop-rocks, but I wanted your opinion.

 

[Stonecutter]

Drop rocks is not a shooting attack since it is neither listed as such and occurs during the remaining moves sub-phase vice the shooting phase. It is a special type of attack with its own description. However, the hits inflicted are distributed as per shooting, which is where some confusion may occur due to this wording. All that aside, the only vamp item with anything versus shooting is the flag of blood keep for blood knights, which gives a 4+ WS vs "ranged attacks". Unfortunately, "ranged attacks" is not defined anywhere in either the BRB or the vamp book.

 

[Saurian]

Ranged attacks would be anything that is not close combat attacks. So yes, Flag of Blood Keep would give him a 4+ ward save against drop rocks. It also provides its ward save against magic as well, including direct damage magic (which would be ranged since the source of the attack was at a distance and not in close combat with them), with the exception of Dwellers which doesn't allow any ward saves of any kind.

Only other thing I can think of would be shield of Ptolos... which is what, a 2+ armour save against shooting?

 

[SilverFaith]

Ranged attacks would be anything that is not close combat attacks.

This is dangerous reasoning. It assumes far too much with nothing to back it up.

I have actually never heard of anyone claim "ranged/shooting" attacks to include magic missiles before. We never play it like that, but instead just call it a magic attack.

"Distributed as for shooting" doesn't mean it's a shooting attack.

Since we have a phase specifically called SHOOTING, I have always played it as shooting = anything occuring in the shooting phase, baring specific exceptions (like S&S, for example)

 

[n810]

Ranged attacks would be anything that is not close combat attacks.

yep. I believe this also includes magic missles.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

I have actually never heard of anyone claim "ranged/shooting" attacks to include magic missiles before. We never play it like that, but instead just call it a magic attack.

How are magic missiles not a ranged attack?

They are from range after all...

Status as magical/non-magical has nothing to do with status as ranged/non-ranged. They are 2 discrete concepts.

 

[Stonecutter]

The problem with "ranged attacks" stems from the lack of a formal definition in any rules. While it may appear evident from a common sense/real world perspective, I long ago gave up trying to apply logic to rules governing a game of fantasy The only reference I can find in the rules regarding "range" is on page 89 under weapons. It defines range as the distance that a weapon can be used at. Here is the quote:

"If a weapon's range is "combat" then it can only be used in close combat. If the range is a number of some kind, it is a missile weapon and the number is its maximum range."


Based on this, it could be argued that CC attacks are "ranged attacks" since the definition is included under the rules for range - I am not making this argument, simply stating that it is possible within the rules governing "range". With respect to drop rocks, since no number is given for them, they clearly do not meet the criteria for being a missile weapon of any sort since they do not have a "range" and this further supports treating them as a "special rule" attack vice any type of shooting attack.

 

[n810]

Here's an exert from out 7th edition book FAQ under 8th edition rules:

Q. Does the Terradon’s Drop Rocks ability count as a shooting attack?
(p52)
A. Yes. Treat it as an out-of-sequence shooting attack that hits
automatically.

Q. Can Terradons Drop Rocks on the turn they charge? (p52)
A. No.

SO I guess it's a shooting attack.
As terradon rules are unchanged un the 8th editiion book.

 

[SilverFaith]

Here's an exert from out 7th edition book FAQ under 8th edition rules:

Q. Does the Terradon’s Drop Rocks ability count as a shooting attack?
(p52)
A. Yes. Treat it as an out-of-sequence shooting attack that hits
automatically.

Q. Can Terradons Drop Rocks on the turn they charge? (p52)
A. No.

SO I guess it's a shooting attack.
As terradon rules are unchanged un the 8th editiion book.

Hadn't seen that one, but of course, it's also horrendously outdated and have seen an edition change... which sorta makes it of dubious use. I mean, if it still applied, one would think they'd have kept it online.

At least my local group and the local Games Workshop disregards any FAQ/Errata that isn't available on Black Library. After all, you can't expect people to know of, or even have access to, rules that are no longer officially published.

 

[n810]

Well I supose you can dice off for it every game then.

 

[SilverFaith]

Well I supose you can dice off for it every game then.

Not sure what the GW store does, because I don't play there. My local group has a local "judge panel" of a sort, and they ruled it as not being a shooting attack. The reason actually being "If it tells us to allocate hits like you would shooting, then it must be because it ISN'T a shooting attack, otherwise the rule would just say "threat Rock Drop like a shooting attack".

 

[lordkingcrow]

I have actually never heard of anyone claim "ranged/shooting" attacks to include magic missiles before. We never play it like that, but instead just call it a magic attack.

How are magic missiles not a ranged attack?

They are from range after all...

Status as magical/non-magical has nothing to do with status as ranged/non-ranged. They are 2 discrete concepts.

+1 To this comment. Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Saurian]

Personally I don't understand how Drop Rocks can NOT be a ranged attack.

The Terradons fly OVER the unit, and drop their rocks from a height. Compare that to Hexwraiths which move THROUGH the unit and deliver their hits from their weapons.

Both are distributed as shooting attacks, but common sense dictates one as being a ranged attack and the other being delivered through contact with the unit.

 

[Madrck]

Is it a tournament? Get the TO's ruling
If not talk about it with whoever your playing and play it that way.
GW has stated over and over again that they don't care and the rules are just suppose to be a guide. RAW it doesn't say anywhere that would clear it up and give a hard solid answer.
As for me, shooting attack implies it was fired or propelled in some fashion. In this instance I feel it's more like getting hit with a mace. Just because the dmg is distributed as shooting doesn't mean it is shooting, looking at you impact hits.