8th Ed. Dual Slanns

[mcasefire]

So How good is a dual slann list in a non comped 2400 points tournament? I always take Rumination, Cogitation, and life together. I also love the potential of the Light Lore. But is it possible to be successful with 2 slanns with 2 diffrent lores? I think these 2 lores together can actually punch pretty hard. I have heard that people have a hard time managing them together. Life is brass tacks when it comes to surviving for me. I usually keep a skink chief on an ancient steg with the warspear. I try to keep him close by so I can heal him when he gets hurt.

Also I see a lot of lists lately putting the scars on Cold Ones. Can you place them in a unit of Saurus while mounted, or do they have to ride solo?

Also, are we allowed to repeat disciplines? So can both slanns take Rumination?

 

[Scalenex]

A mounted Saurus character can join an infantry Saurus block, but they give the entire block the need to take Stupidity checks (without being immune to Psychology) and the Saurus character cannot benefit from lookout sirs. Normally this is not an issue and the block benefits from a well armored fear causing leader in their mist but I lost a BSB to a stray rock once. There are tradeoffs but they certainly don't have to ride solo.

Yes, you can double on disciplines for your Slann since disciplines are not treated as magic items.

I haven't used double Slann myself yet but conventional wisdom seems to be to go with Death + your favorite lore (for the extra power dice Death provides). Forbidden Rod is also a good idea for the extra power dice. Light and Life should work okay because both lores are full of cheap spells to cast.

 

[ChandlerGriz]

I once took Life and Shadow once... I was unimpressed. If the winds roll low you are stuck with 800-900 points of waste. If they roll high then you have A LOT of options, but it may be TOO MANY options

 

[Eladimir]

I agree with Griz, I tried life and death once. And low winds just made the whole thing pretty weak. Think of what 800 points of old bloods could do.

 

[Rhodium]

I agree with Griz, I tried life and death once. And low winds just made the whole thing pretty weak. Think of what 800 points of old bloods could do.

I'm the opposite, at 2400 I almost always run metal/light or death/light, I always take rumination on the metal slann to mitigate poor winds of magic roll or the death slann can give me power dice back and light have many spells that can be cast on 1-2 dice, it can be risky but if it fails to cast, you have a another level 4 to cast other spells!
Another thing is my slann usually cost 280 and 315 so if one gets caught in combat or miscasts and blows up, it is only 300 odd points and you still have a level 4 left, a level of redundancy isn't a bad thing


Both Eladimir and Griz say that is 800-900 point that can be wasted, this would require a game of 3200 point minimum to get that in, the OP is talking about 2400 point so only 600 can be spent on slann, plenty space for some other scar vets, sallies and combat blocks.

Furthermore, a tooled up slann can be about 500-600 point plus 200 extra VP as he will be BSb and general. That is a lot to lose to a miscast, and so much your opponent should focus on killing that model, the points along with the loss of your only level 4, general and BSB should win them the game, if you have these points split between two models, it lessens the target on their heads. Although you talk about LIght, the only time I say you have to take one slann is a life slann and temple guard, that unit would be worth so much, you need to use all you magic dice to keep it strong and full so a second slann wouldn't get any dice.


You can replicate disciplines, however, at 2400 you can only have one free discipline each (presuming one of the slann is the BSB) I would only equip one of them with rumination, giving the light slann the focus of mystery to ensure you get all the light spells (and give the other slann the plaque of tepok)

 

[Eladimir]

Well you certianly make a persuasive arguement. I only disagree with you point at the end. You have two Slanns why would you want to spend what little points remain on loremaster and an extra spell? Wouldn't a dispell scroll and bsb be better, or perhaps ethereal for the unbunkered slann?

 

[Rhodium]

Well you certianly make a persuasive arguement. I only disagree with you point at the end. You have two Slanns why would you want to spend what little points remain on loremaster and an extra spell? Wouldn't a dispell scroll and bsb be better, or perhaps ethereal for the unbunkered slann?

Pretty fair point,

My death/metal slann is the BSB and I usually carry a scroll on a naked skink priest due to the 25% points cap, I would primarily like to carry a scroll on the slann and save the points of the skink, but i like having lots of spells (personal choice) so don't have space for a scroll.

I usually play under comp that
A) prohibits more than 2 power dice being generated in anyway other way than winds and channelling so double rumination is a lot less useful under this comp
B) dispell scroll can't be taken alongside cube of darkness

But that is definitely my own choices/preferences and your suggestions on items and disciplines would also make a good double slann set up too.

 

[Eladimir]

Couple more probing questions for you.
Do you make your BSB the general or split up the roles.
Do you bunker either and what units do they sit in?

 

[Pyre]

I've been playing dual slann a good bit recently with great success. The trick though is you have to really sell out to make it work. I run the following: one slann with Life, Mystery, and Rumination; one slann with Shadow, Rumination, and the Plaque of Tepok. The Plaque/Mystery arrangement can be switched, and indeed I might, but this was the set-up I've run. Note you cannot afford to put the battle standard on either slann, so I run a scar-vet with max protection as the BSB in my Temple Guard. The last bit to include is two skink priests, both level one, the first with the dispel scroll and the second with the Forbidden Rod and Opal Amulet.

Now that's a LOT in magic but I still squeeze in a big block of Sarus, Skrox, and a decent size unit of Temple Guard. I just skip on Stegs and cut back on the rest of the toys (Terradons, only run 2 Salamanders, a single unit of Chameleons, etc).

As for how it works: you have an immediate 24" threat in the combo of Enfeebling For and Dwellers. Twice I have obliterated enemy death stars on turn one, and it becomes even more of a threat in the mid-game when the 12" normal range of Dwellers isn't such an issue. Once the fighting starts I still have blocks big enough to fight, some of the best augment/hexes in the game, and with two Ruminations I can get a LOT of spells off on average. Consider a normal roll of 7 power dice, plus 4 channels, and only needing 2 power dice to cast most of the spells in Life and Shadow, that's at least three spells with a fourth not out of the question. Miasma, Earthblood, and Flesh to Stone are all very doable on one power die plus Rumination.

For the low dice turns channel then pop the Forbidden Rod. The priest actually has a chance to survive it, and if he does the Life lore attribute will have him back at two wounds real damned fast. Even on a roll of double ones the Forbidden Rod plus channeling will put you at 7 power dice on average, leaving your enemy on 1 dispel die and unable to stop much of anything.

There are issues with the list. You cannot throw away your chaff, because you aren't likely to have a ton of it. Its missing Becalming, which means sweating a little more when facing someone with Purple Sun or Pit. My biggest issue is learning to be patient, rather than surging forward aggressively. With Life and Shadow you can avoid a lot of shooting, Miasma and regeneration/Toughness boosts, and what you do take you can heal.

That's my experiences in the matter, for what its worth...


Pyre

 

[GCPD]

Is it always best to mix lores rather than doubling up? I'm thinking of trying double Slann in some larger games but was intending to use both on Light so that I could skip taking Loremaster and keep them cheap with 1 or 2 Disciplines only (Rumination on both and Becalming on one).

 

[Rhodium]

Couple more probing questions for you.
Do you make your BSB the general or split up the roles.
Do you bunker either and what units do they sit in?

I split them up, general is the the light and the bsb the other, to mitigate the cost if one dies.

I usually sit mine in saurus blocks, but sometimes in a skink skirmisher block/ solo (if ethereal, so larger points value) if situations dictate

Is it best to mix lores

I like to mix lores it give a wide array of tools, however the top ranked lizard player in the UK, Jack Armstrong, has been known to run double Light with excellent results, so it can work.

 

[skillfull_dan]

I have seen both double light and double fire run with great success. The double light was a different kind of list than most lizard players I see run, it was MSU of skinks, chameleons, and terradons with timewarp marching 24 inches all over.

The double fire was more standard and built on the lore of fire's lore attribute. So with the lore attribute and double rumination, he got off 5 spells per round. On a side note, flame cage + wind blast / salamander panic / burning head panic are mean combinations.