Discussion Fate of the lizard men

[Spark]

Hi I'm new to this website and was wondering about everyone's theory's on what will happen to the lizard men in the 9th edition and what you guys want to happen?? Post below!!!

 

[spawning of Bob]

There are a bunch of threads in the "Discussion" subforum which are devoted to wild guessing, rumour chasing and doomsaying. All proponents of hope and tolerance have been sacrificed. Those threads tend to focus on the gaming background and how the background might affect the gaming dynamics for LM (Will we exist? Will we be part of a larger faction which will affect army composition, that kind of thing.) That stuff is worth a read.

BUT

was wondering about everyone's theory's on what will happen to the lizard men in the 9th edition and what you guys want to happen??

I hope your question is actually about the history / fluff / setting of the WHFB world and not really about game mechanics. Because that is the question I will answer.

Q. "everyone's theory's on what will happen to the lizard men in the 9th edition"

A. I have no idea. I haven't lived through a GW reboot before, but if End of Times is an indication then no-one's worldview is safe. Malekith on the Phoenix Throne? Cooperative skaven? Lustria a smoking ruin? I think that a reboot which cuts the end times out completely would be nice, but I wouldn't bet on it happening....

If I ignore LM for a bit, the 8th Ed (pre End Times) was in a state of bloody equilibrium - There was only war - and anyone could lose. This is a good base for the game because any faction could fight with any other for any dumb reason and without much hope of significantly tipping the balance. The next step in the 9th Ed background (if there is a next step) will end up with a new stalemate. Geography and alliances may be redrawn, but the sales side of the game needs to have all factions with equal hope of success or failure - that way people will buy different armies!

Therefore, the world will find a new balance. Either everyone endlessly fighting (like last time) or another possble path to equilibrium would be all of the factions rebelling against an invincible evil overlord (which won't happen, but I am just illustrating that there other kinds of equilibria)


Q. what you guys want to happen??

A.
Option a)- nothing (please?) I chose to write my fluff into a period about 300 years before Karl Franz (in and around the Great War Against Chaos) - I did this because it allowed me to change history (actually I cause the established history to happen) without derailing the WHFB world. The problem with writing big (continent spanning / multifaction / significant character involving) stories into the "present day" equilibrium is that of you do tip the balance of power, or kill someone important or bring some sort of resolution them 80% of the readers will go "it isn't meant to go that way!" (Exhibit A = The End Times).

It suits me if 9th Ed just develops the 8th Ed stalemate.

Option b)- 9th Ed fluff can be anything it wants (including End Times) as long as they don't massively rewrite the history leading up to Karl Franz. A stable history doesn't just make me happy, but anyone who has ever thought up some personalized fluff for their army did it with certain assumptions in mind. To rewrite LM as being short, hairy, gold loving and magic hating would be a betrayal of the existing fan base.

I hope GW is listening.....

 

[pendrake]

[W]hat will happen to the lizard men in the 9th edition and what you guys want to happen?

• I think Age of Sigmar (AoS) will be a skirmish game product
• I think it will use round and oval bases
• Figures will fight as individuals
• I think factions will be condensed and simplified

But Bob would rather keep this about the fluff backstory, so I will honour that request next:

• I am very fond of products that 'do what they say on the tin'...so I am wondering if and kind of hoping that, AoS is literally that: A battlegame product set when the original Sigmar was still alive some 2400 or so years before there was an Empire, or End Times, or Setra, or Nagash, or any of it.
• I am hoping they turned back the clock.
• In 3 or 4 editions worth of army books it has mentioned that men were disorganized tribes until wonderful Sigmar started battling away and fending off the chaos...but it has never been real, merely legend, the details have never mattered, it all just been throwaway lines taking up space in books for those who get 'invested' in the 'fluff'
• So maybe they decided to use what they have already written?
• Visit the past.
• A time when warriors mostly fought as individuals without being in ranked up formations...

What is old is new
​

I think the notion(s) of assorted spheres of reality, alternate timelines, fragments of a sundered planet was considered but got abandoned. It is simpler to say, "you command an army devoted to _________ and it has a small stronghold, mostly made of timber located _______________ for a base". Someday it may be a vast battle force defending a huge kingdom if it can survive The Age of Sigmar.

A full blown 9th edition with ranked units may follow. But I think they might still be ironing out the details and weighing the options.

Meanwhile, remaining stocks of 8th edition books, End Times books, and all related material are going to be rounded up and given over to the same operation that will sell you a Chaos Dwarf army book in hardback for $100's of dollars. Until they decide what to do next, that will be the extent to which all the old things will be playable. Models will remain on sale (they cost too much not to).

A Way Forward

This is the stellar system Warhammer was located in.
The Fourth rock from the sun was where Lustria and all the rest was located.
The row of planets on the left is before the end times,
the row on the right is what remains after the planet was obliterated.
A white dot with a red ring around it to represent a Chaos Rift with something shining at the center.

​

I would like it if they started over by moving planets around. There are moons orbiting Isharna that are the size of the Warhammer Planet whatever it was called. Or they could just relocate remnant populations to Lokratia, after they move it closer to the Sun. Do a Sci-Fi hand-wave, Old-One spacecraft show up, put things right, literally create a new world order.

And this time don't do such a convoluted, involved, hard to keep track of backstory...

 

[Spark]

Thanks!! when I found out about the end times ending I frantically searched the internet for a week trying to see if the Lizard men survived so both of your answers where informative ( I know that's sounds like I'm assuming your right but I'm not) and interesting about what you guys think will happen. THANKS!!!!

 

[Spark]

Also I new to the WHFB world and have only been playing for a year so I don't know things about what they did in other editions.

 

[spawning of Bob]

And this time don't do such a convoluted, involved, hard to keep track of backstory...

I think convoluted and involved is OK, but making it over detailed stops it being historical background and makes it into something restrictive. The other GW sin is having the same characters having the same duels over and over again.

 

[pendrake]

I haven't lived through a GW reboot before, but if End of Times is an indication then no-one's worldview is safe.

A long time ago the Warhammer world was thought to look like this:

Spoiler: OLD, Old Mappes of the Olde Worlde

But at some point it changed to this:

Notice the large doughnut in the Not-atlantic Ocean named Ullthuan.

Does anyone remember which rules edition boundary was responsible for this alteration to the planet?

 

[Spark]

Nice map

 

[pendrake]

Nice map

I didn't draw it. Somebody else has linked a different version of it in another recent thread. And, there are two others under the spoiler tag.
[...maybe I should remove that...]

Also, the solar system diagrams align side by side (if your display is wide enough). This fails on a phone screen.