8th Ed. Frenzied units

[gewaltatron]

Hi guys,

I was wondering about the following:

Frenzied units have to declare charges unless they pass a leadership test. if they fail, they have to charge the nearest enemy.

Now how does it work if your frenzied unit has two possible targets, one very close, lets say 3" but which is obviously a redirector or whatever he does not want to attack, and another target further away.

Can the frenzied unit charge the unit that is further away? Can it do it without a leadership test (which is only needed to not charge...)?

And what happens if the further away unit is not reachable from the beginning, say it is 21" away and your frenzied units max charge distance would be 20 (8+12)? This could always be used to avoid charging those redirectors

And even worse, what if it is in possible range but you don't make the charge roll?

 

[gewaltatron]

ok , the one with the unit beeing out of maximum range is clear. it is said in the BRB that this is not a legal charge and frenzy says, if the unit could declare charge.

so forget about this part

 

[Stonecutter]

As per the rules on page 70, a frenzied unit can only declare a charge against the nearest, viable enemy unit if it fails the LD test, regardless of whether or not it is an obvious chaff unit. The simplest way to avoid this (short of passing the LD test) is to declare a charge BEFORE any leadership test against the unit you would prefer to engage. This may be done tactically to avoid being pulled far out of position by the chaff unit from the resultant overrun and exposing a flank to a counter charge. If the charge is failed, the unit will only move forward d6" and will not be vulnerable to a flank charge whereas if the charge is made, it is likely against a very worthy target.

 

[Rhodium]

I have been ninja'd by stonecutter, but he makes it sound like it is a cut and dry rule (I actually believe that he is right) however others disagree

This is one of the warhammer famous rules grey ares

it can be understood either way
1) you have to take a LD test, if you pass, you can charge either unit at your discretion or if you fail you have to charge the redirector that is 3 inches away
or
2) you dont need to take a LD test to declare a charge against the unit that is further away, only if you decide not to declare any charges do you need to take a frenzy check

This is an ongoing discussion that comes up every so often, infact there is a thread on The Warhammer Forum right now asking this question right now

The easiest thing to do is take a LD test any way because if the test is passed, dont worry about it, it only comes an issue when it is failed but sadly there is no defined answer because the rules on page 70 of the rulebook are not watertight and can lead to different understandings

 

[gewaltatron]

Hi,

yes because of this ambiguity I was posting this question. But to be honest, my understanding was the same as the one of stonecutter.

You have to charge, independent of whether it is the nearest unit or not! If you don't want, make a LD test, if you pass fine, if you fail, your unit can't hold back and attacks the first thing that comes to their mind, the nearest unit...

I checked the German version (I am German as my poor English has probably revealed already) and it is a simple 1:1 translation, so no additional information to grasp here. Therefore I think it is like I stated above and stonecutter did earlier.

But I agree, the wording in the book could be understood differently if you want to.

Logically I think, frenzy only means you have to go out and kill someone and you as the general can try to stop these crazy lunatics by passing a LD test, but if you fail, the guys get overwhelmed by their inner voices and just go crazy on what is the easiest target.

 

[gewaltatron]

FYI, in our game today it did come up. and we played as discussed. If you charge anyway, no test needed.