AoS General's Handbook Points Reflection

[InfamousBeany]

Hey guys!

Having now had the GH points leaked for a short while, I was hoping to see what our community thinks of our situation in the upcoming season of match play. (I have attached our points leaks for anyone who hasn't seen them yet).

What do you think is under/over costed? (Kroak? Cham Skinks?)

Has anything become more or less viable? (Poor ripperdactyls)

Any key combos that are particularly points efficient? (Saurus Guard formation?)

How has your army changed (or hasn't)? (No more summon spam? EotG less inviting?)

Feel free to also include anything from other factions that are of note, be they threats or allies.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

[Buldi]

Tbh, its a good thing they nerfed the rapedactyls. I felt sometimes bad when i attacked 9 times and hit the enemy 36 times
Now they are a balanced glass canon. I always include them in my list. They add the counter attack abillity to my "immortals" (saurus guard). Since season od war starts this week, i will gry various lista and share my thougts after the battles.

 

[Bowser]

I will definitely have several different lists, if playing a strict matched play it will be very different from an open play, or say match play with no summon restrictions house rules.
Just have to find the right balance.

 

[InfamousBeany]

Bowser you raise a really good point- had a long chat with my local GW manager, and it seems there is a huge emphasis on encouraging people to use these rules as a framework, not as absolutes. House rules and small modifications to the rulesets are actually openly discussed in the Handbook itself, great step forward.

As an extra question to my OP, what house rules are people already starting to cook up to personalise their games?

 

[Bowser]

Tough to say, we will occasionally just throw out the summoning restrictions, or one of the rules of 1s. Depending on how the game is going. But for the most part scenarios are keeping things interesting enough that we could play with all the rules and restrictions, still have a good game and practoce up for a tournament.

 

[Freddy25]

My impression is...
Skink handlers are UNBELIEVABLY expansive!!!
I mean, come one, just 3 of those guys cost as half of a Skink unit!

I know they grant 3'' extra to Salamanders' range, or re-rolls to our Razordons, but to me 40 points are still too much...
(keeping in mind that regular skinks have star bucklers, can shoot, have the retreat ability, and so on!)

Probably I particularly dislike the fact we are forced to get them in packs of 1-3, paying 40 pts at a time,
while I would have preferred to spend, let's say, 10/12 but be able to field Handlers as individuals.

Other things?
Mmh... well, I believe the rest is reasonable.
Maybe are 180 pts for 3 Kroxis a little too much? I cannot judge properly cause I don't use them often, but they cost more than a Skink Starseer or than a unit of Knights...

P.S. I love how the Firelance Starhost costs just 60: that's my favourite battalion warscroll, and it's amazing for me it is the least expansive!

 

[stauderpower]

The skink patrol battalion (I don't remember it's new name off the top of my head) I'd really good now since you can drop your rippers on an objective whenever you want , and if you have 6 they can hold it. Chamo skins are also good for just appearing on objectives which is why I think they are pointed so much. Overall I don't think I'll be summoning much since it's better to just take all your points on the table with seraphon. Though I may hold enough points to drop a salamander in a good spot to do some shooting ocassionaly

 

[Killer Angel]

I've just realized we have no points cost for formations as Klaq-Tor's Talon, or the Heavenswatch Starhost...

 

[Dhol]

Few questions :
Are Saurus Warrior worth their price compared to Saurus Guard ?
I really see no point taking Warriors except for summoning and maybe a starhost.

About Kroak, oh god he is powerful. His cost is lower than any other faction leader inthe game, but that seems to a very positive point for him.
Combined with some Allegeance artefact and abilities (avoid wounds on 6+ and rend -1) he will be amazing. Do you guys agree with what I think ?

 

[InfamousBeany]

Ok, some points in reply to @Dhol

• Saurus warriors are double the number for the points, so mortal wounds hurt a hell of a lot less. They also still pretty decent tarpits due to their shields, and a lot of people underestimate them. More importantly, they give you flexibility. Don't forget that to take Guard as Battleline units you have to be Seraphon allegiance, not Order allegiance, so you lose access to the traits and artefacts, and you can only take seraphon units. Still not sure if thats worth it, but there is no denying hiw good Guard are.
• Kroak. Oh dear. I was this close to buying him. And then I saw the Generals Handbook FAQ. He has been ruled that he can't use his AOE mortal wound spell multiple times, despite the wording on his warscroll. Sitting at 560 points (More expensive than a Stardrake!!) I just don't think he's viable anymore. I would much rather take a bunch if other casters for the same points cost, at least then I have flexibility. Cool unit, just way too overcosted to be any use IMO, and definitely not the must-have he used to be.
• One last thing- you can't give named characters (like Kroak) command traits or artefacts.

 

[Dhol]

Thanks for the answer Infamousbeany!
You are right, I actually missed all these rules you mentionned for Kroak. He sucks a bit now :/ I really hope he will be errated, our leader needs to be a badass frog again...

Also you seems to be right about warriors.. I missed the battleline ruling... I will have to reconsider my army list

 

[PartyFoul]

Regarding Saurus Warriors, I've been planning to have a unit of 40 in my 2,000 pt list. With Ordered Cohort, they get 80 attacks on their clubs at 3+ / 3+ until you have <30 in the unit, and then you still get the +hit modifier until <20. This isn't playtested, so I'm likely missing something, but the doubling of attacks feels awfully powerful to me. It effectively gives you a Guard at half cost, since a vanilla Guard gets 2 attacks at 3+ / 3+ as well, the only difference being the -1 rend. Also, the summon spell is relatively low at 6, and with 40 models on the table, you'll have plenty of supply to summon once they start getting pressured.

 

[Killer Angel]

First of all, a horde of 30+ models with clubs as weapon, is going to lose attacks because not all the models will have reach.
Second, the difference is not only the rend but also the save. Vanilla guards start from 4+ and can have a 3+ just for a hero that is reading a newspaper in their proximity.

Third, when you start to buff them and a warden enters in the equation, there’s simply no match.

I like saurus warriors , but the points cost difference with guards, got solid bases.

 

[Tozon]

I think both have a place.

Saurus Guard are amazing, they are resilient can throw out good damage but are very vulnerable to mortal wounds (eg a Thundertusk eliminates 120pts in one go if they manage their alpha strike). Also they suffer currently from only being 'Seraphon Battleline' meaning if you want the 'Order' traits and artifacts you need extra battleline units.

Saurus Warriors are cheaper and are not as good. Fact. But they still definitely have a place, their base size is a pain in the arse as it means you are going to want them with spears which means they are distinctly average, But saying that as a big unit they get better, 40 of them are throwing down an okay amount of damage, are quite durable (bravery...14 if 40, 13 after a casualty) and I think are going to be perfect for parking on an objective or supporting are more elite units.


Overall I think the pointing on both is reasonable given what we have access too, just try not to compare them too much to other armies toys (that's always a good way to go insane any way).

Tozon

 

[Buldi]

I always take the Guard. Just love them too much to not to field them. My method of avoiding mortal wounds is fielding some nasty units, so the opponents would hesitate which one kill first. You know, sallies? Rapedactyls?
Ofc there are some big, hard units like the stonehorn, or Alarielle. But everything else try kill with shooting. Chams, basti and sallies.

 

[Dhol]

I was thinking about a strategy using summoned saurus warriors (several units of 10) to simply take position in key areas or engaging the most annoying enemy units to slow them down.
My brother was using a similar strategy sending nurglings against my retributors in a recent game and that was a real pain in the ***.
The warriors cost is low and may actually be effective with some boosting unit nearby. It may be a good way to let my salamanders come closer.
Is that a waste of unit ? I am also considering skinks but they may not last very long.

 

[m0gstar]

I'm most worried about the Engine of the Gods.

The new Summoning rules clearly state that spells and abilities that summon units must come out the reinforcement pool that was pre-purchased.

I am not one to think that the new summoning rules are very good. So much stuff that can just blow out a caster in turn 1 and make your 260 point model actually cost 560 once it dies after not doing a single thing.

So EoTG 14-17 summon ability has a 15.7% chance of being rolled. In the case that you take no reinforcements, the engine will just stand there and not do a single thing. - I really hope that they FAQ that ability to allow it to act as if a different spell was cast if there were no reinforcements like they did for the 18+ spell.

I can't see it being used except as a support unit for a Slann to have that extra buffer for summoning if the Slann does get blown away turn 1.

As it stands, using an EoTG seems like an unreliable, and high risk unit to field to me as the sole potential summoner if you wanted to use reinforcements, and if you decide not to use reinforcements, will end up doing nothing around 20% of the time.

Thoughts?

 

[PJetski]

I hope they errata that the EotG can pick a lower value from its list like Alarielles special list

 

[Killer Angel]

Guys, to "force" the EotG toward useful rolls, you need to back up it with a Slann and possibly a Starseer.
It's not just the nerfed summoning : how much can be good the 10" radius damage in the first turn, or the healing ability if no one is hurt?
the EotG is a strong support, a hero that gives arcane vessel, a solid meleer... it's many things, but it’s not the Ultimate weapon... it's cheaper than a basic stegadon!

 

[PartyFoul]

@m0gstar rather than hold reserves / reinforcements, why not just summon any units that have been killed when rolling 14-17?

@Killer Angel agree - should pair with a Slann to make good use of this.

In general, this seems like it would be very effective buffing proximate units that are actively mixing it up