7th Ed. Giant Bow Questions

[Nerdling]

I have a couple giant bow questions

If the stegadon moves does the giant bow recieve a -1 to hit?
Is there -1 to hit for long range?
Can I march and shoot?

Thanks

 

[Caneghem]

Unless otherwise stated, you follow the basic rules so...

Yes
Yes
No

 

[strewart]

Caneghem is completely right. If the base moves, the whole model is considered to have moved.

 

[Dalkarius]

Now here's a question, bolt throwers are considered to pivot for free, and so are monsters, so in a Stegadon doesn't "move" but "aims" at an enemy unit in same manner as a bolt thrower, then will we still suffer the penalty for moving?

 

[strewart]

Yeah you can pivot on the spot for free without counting as moving.

 

[kroxigor01]

But technically it is not a bolt thrower, therefore is not a warmachine, thus does not get a pivot. It simply has a missile weapon, so should be fired as such.

 

[strewart]

Wow, I think you are right. Characters get 360 LoS, monsters may turn in any direction without penalty according to the rules under monsters so I assumed that if they can turn without penalty, they can shoot without penalty. But it is true that in the shooting rules, where it says modifiers, under moving and shooting 'even a simple turn can effect a models concentration and reduce his to hit roll'. I couldn't find anything saying a monstrous mount may turn without shooting penalty, I always thought they could and my opponents played as such but it seems they can't.

 

[Caneghem]

Wow, I think you are right. Characters get 360 LoS, monsters may turn in any direction without penalty according to the rules under monsters so I assumed that if they can turn without penalty, they can shoot without penalty. But it is true that in the shooting rules, where it says modifiers, under moving and shooting 'even a simple turn can effect a models concentration and reduce his to hit roll'. I couldn't find anything saying a monstrous mount may turn without shooting penalty, I always thought they could and my opponents played as such but it seems they can't.

A turn takes 1/4 movement and I think is different from a pivot. Since monsters get a free pivot, I'm wondering if the penalty applies.

 

[Aparach]

Yeah, I have thought about the same thing myself.
But it does say that the Giant bow is to be treated like a bolt thrower in every aspect(or something like that, can't remember the exact sounding..) except that it has shorter range and lower strenght. It doesn't neccecarily has to be a warmachine(which I don't mean it is) but I think you would be allowed to make a free pivot and fire without penelty as it is "supposed" to be a BT...

That being said, I does make sense that fireing from the back of a moving steggi should have an impact on the skinks aim, but as I see it he only pivots while the skinks are setting the string and reloads. when the aiming and shooting happens I would guess the the big lugg behave and don't mess up the shooting... This is just my personal interpretations of the rules though, so sue me

 

[blackhawk]

wrong. pivot on spot is actually a movement rule that states that it doesn't costs you any " inches" and therefor is free.

it has nothing to do with shooting penalties and such.

so if you are pivoting on spot you are moving without giving up inches! so you do get a penatly for moving when shooting with howdah weapons when the steggie is pivoting.

warmachines do not pivot on spot, they allign to their target, which is something way different then some huge lumbering monster turning around!

if someone can show me that in the brb, errate or faq it says exactly that pivoting on spot doesn't hinder you shooting, then go ahead show me!

 

[Aparach]

hmmm, I didn't know that.. never been too familiar with the warmachine rules so got to rereead those rules some time Anyway, it sounds logical and I suppose you're right about the moving bit. Thanx man

 

[msinosic]

But it does say that the Giant bow is to be treated like a bolt thrower in every aspect(or something like that, can't remember the exact sounding..)

It says it penetrates ranks in the same manner as a bolt thrower. That is all it says.

In the movement phase only can the Stegadon move, pivot. Yes, if he does move or pivot, he would he suffer a -1 for moving and shooting.

No he may not pivot in the Shooting Phase to 'aim' as it is not a Warmachine. You may only shoot at things in the Stegadon's LOS.

 

[strewart]

Yeah that is a good point. Warmachines turn in the shooting phase to face what they want, while other things must turn in the movement phase and once in the shooting phase cannot turn. So their turn counts as movement while warmachines don't. Seems clear now.

And yeah the giant bow is not a warmachine, just hurts like a bolt thrower. No pivoting stegadons without penalty.

 

[Revered_Guardian]

yeah but my book says the giant bow is poisoned.... how the heck does that work?

roll a 6 and all toughness tests are passed?

 

[strewart]

You don't need a toughness test for poison...

It is another debatable point. By the letter of the rules, what you hit with poison counts as poisoned so if you hit a full rank poison effects a full rank. Seems powerful, except you will probably be using the weapon twice a game tops, and even if it goes straight through a rank it will kill 4 models? The other way to handle it is to autokill the first model then roll to wound for the others like normal. Really depends on what you agree with your opponent until GW clarrifies it.

 

[Revered_Guardian]

Curse GW and their vagness!!!!!.... good thing i got the ancient instead :}

 

[Dalkarius]

Yeah, the loopholes in these books are maddening, lol. And the giant bow is actually quite a great weapon, I shot it 4 turns in a row in my big fight and only missed once, killed quite a few knights and put some hurt on a Steam Tank.