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AoS Gotrek

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Boshea, Sep 5, 2019.

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  1. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Yeah, but just taking more foot troops and making a ring that is bigger than 6" around an objective with other units on the objective is better in every case where the objective isn't held by a hero. It will take a min of 2 turn to win the bubbled objective, which makes it double turn immune. This is a big part of why hordes are better than elites.
     
    LizardWizard, Sep 7, 2019
    #41
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  2. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    I will be to the point here, he is a very powerful unit in the right right situation and as we have seen he can curb stomp just about anything in reach, so he is very effective. However this does mean that he has to be used in a very limited way, closing in with high value heroes like nagash and archaon before beating the pulp out of them. So in essence to get the most out of gotrek you need to kill a hero of points higher in value than he is.
    So this is great, but then we also have to consider other factors. For one he may be able to in comparison beat 2 carnosaurs, but two carnosaurs have much more flexibility to offer than he does, especially in speed. Are carnosaurs objectively better? No, but Gotrek is limited in his hunter niche.

    So to actually kill something he needs to close, and this arguably is the difficult part. Almost all heroes are faster than him and he will have to pass through terrain and chaff. The way AoS has evolved, winning is not done just by killing. Of an expensive model is tied down for long enough to reduce its effectiveness, that is all that needs to take place. This can be argued that if Gotrek limits a huge heroes zones then he has arguably fulfilled his purpose, but he still cost a huge amount of points to just zone out the enemy, so not really a win. Furthermore he can easily be tied down by chaff, from skinks to skeletons and other cheap crap. A turn or two will significantly reduce his effectiveness. So overall, he is hyper lethal, but he is limited in his niche ability. If he can engage, excellent but arguably a cheaper model like a Star drake would be more flexible and more viable. If he looks cool and you want to use him, then do it! After all cool stuff is a big part of the fun
     
    Lizerd, Sep 7, 2019
    #42
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  3. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    well said
     
    Erta Wanderer, Sep 7, 2019
    #43
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  4. Boshea
    Saurus

    Boshea Active Member

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    What are competive skaven running these days after skaventide? I feel like fluff alone means Gotrek would beat them
     
    Boshea, Sep 7, 2019
    #44
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  5. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    There are two competitive builds at the moment. One spams Clanrats takes an unkillable Verminlord Warpseer and Warp Lightning Cannons. The other spams Plague Monks, use 2 or more Plague Furnaces and Verminlord Corruptors (at least one of which has the Sword of Judgement). There are some Moulder variations that run Hellpit Aboms and lots of Ratswarms.
     
    LizardWizard, Sep 7, 2019
    #45
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  6. Boshea
    Saurus

    Boshea Active Member

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    That pestilence list is almost exactly what I was considering for Skaven. 2 furnaces, 120 monks, corrupter then either another 40 monks or a 2nd corruptor. Remaining points to priests on foot oe battalion for aetifacts.

    The obtaining and painting of 120+ identical guys is the main deterrent.
     
    Boshea, Sep 7, 2019
    #46
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  7. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I do like him and I do think Gotrek is a strong model. It was fun to play with such a melee monster and he did well in my game.
    With his availability in tournament play I guess we will soon see what place in the meta he will have. :)
     
    Aginor, Sep 7, 2019
    #47
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  8. Boshea
    Saurus

    Boshea Active Member

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    Three start collecting Fyreslayerd and Gotrek is just shy of 2k :p
     
    Boshea, Sep 7, 2019
    #48
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  9. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    A friend of mine ordered the model, so today he proxied it in a match against another huge hero from the past. Lord Kroak.

    Never seen more wasted 520 pts. :p


    hopefully i will do a BatRep.
     
    Killer Angel, Sep 8, 2019
    #49
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  10. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Oh geez, what happened to Gotrek? I’m guessing based on the fact that it’s lord Kroak, spells were involved
     
    Lizerd, Sep 8, 2019
    #50
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  11. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Gotrek left the battlefield untouched and unscarred.
    the same cannot be said for the rest of the army that was standing alongside Grimnir's avatar…

    Let's be honest. he may be the God of fighting, but he's not a flying VLoZD with move 19". It's a trivial task to dance around him on the battlefield.

    He can be a problem only in certain scenarios.
     
    Killer Angel, Sep 8, 2019
    #51
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  12. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    This is why he isn't tournament viable. When something is unkillable you just ignore it. He also just so happens to be slow enough that ignoring him is really easy to accomplish.
     
    LizardWizard, Sep 8, 2019
    #52
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  13. Jason839
    Salamander

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    Wish he had some kind of goad ability. Like all enemy units within 12 of him must advance directly towards him and charge him if possible.
     
    Jason839, Sep 9, 2019
    #53
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  14. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    if only he could run and charge. maybe an ability activated with a command point.
     
    Killer Angel, Sep 9, 2019
    #54
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  15. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Call it: "Incredibly Deadly Over Short Distances."
     
    LizardWizard, Sep 9, 2019
    #55
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  16. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    At that point, you can try to build the list to support him with command points: he moves 4", you spend a cp to have Gotrek run for 6", so it's basically a move 10" plus the charge with a second command point. 2 command points, but you threaten an average 17", which is not bad.
     
    Killer Angel, Sep 9, 2019
    #56
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  17. Jason839
    Salamander

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    Edit nvm solved my own question
     
    Jason839, Sep 9, 2019
    #57
  18. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Nope, only when affecting him. Everything else would take normal damage.
     
    LizardWizard, Sep 9, 2019
    #58
  19. Jason839
    Salamander

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    That’s what I concluded as well. Thanks.
     
    Jason839, Sep 9, 2019
    #59
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  20. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    It’s a cool idea, but he lacks fly and to do this would mean sinking more into this to make it even somewhat viable.
     
    Lizerd, Sep 9, 2019
    #60
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