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8th Ed. Horde of Skinks and Kroxigor

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Jungle Swarm

Angrymiguel

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Has anyone tested out a large Horde of Skink and Kroxigor? I was thinking of running a really large one for the 2nd round of 'Ard Boys. I was looking for some feedback on it, ways to protect it or horror stories of how bad it is.

I was looking at a 80 skink and 10 Kroxigor horde, running 10 skinks wide. It should be 10 skink attacks and 30 Kroxigor attacks to the front. It starts 10 ranks deep, with 90 models and 110 wounds it keeps tempting me. I would run it with a musician and standard bearer for sure, but I wonder, is a champion worth adding? It is 977 points with the Champion, 969 without.
 
Here's the deal: due to the way our army book is worded (and our book having been written for 7th edition), horde formation doesn't really work with skink/kroxigor mixed units. The kroxigors, for all intents and purposes, occupy both the second and third rank. Hoard units get to fight with an additional rank of supporting attacks- and that additional rank is already attacking. The up side is that the unit gets to claim a "free" rank.

Beyond that, for me, the appeal of a skrox unit is its speed and maneuverability. Horde size cuts into that far too much, and for a unit that's going to be relatively static, I'll choose Saurus.

As far as a champion goes, I take one every time. When a frenzied chaos lord with sword of bloodshed wanders up to the unit, I'll happily pay six points for all his attacks to towards splattering the champion, and keep my steadfast ranks longer.

If a horde attack really appeals to you, maybe just plain kroxigors with strong magical support is the way. There was a thread on here about using them as escorts for a Life Slann...
 
I have taken a horde unit of 4 kroxigors and 60 skinks. It is very effective and scares the hell out of your opponent. I enjoy using them and usually do not take any saurus for my core. Its all skrox for me. Play out a few test games to see if you like it. With Lore of Light or Life, they work really well.
 
Well with my experience with Skrox units I would generally not recommend this. The number of skinks is find but I find putting a lot of kroxigor into the unit makes it way to expensive. Unless you are fighting a relatively weak unit u will just get chewed apart. 10 kroxigor wide would make for a very wide unit and unless you go against another horde unit most of your kroxigor wont even be able to attack. You are also losing a lot of attacks on the stand and shoot with that many Kroxigor soaking up your 2nd rank for the S&S.

I played my brother today and I used a 41 Skinks and 1 krox in the middle. It kept the unit relatively cheap but it also made it so if I lost it on combat it would have a chance to do a lot more damage with shooting and S&S. Everytime i shot i got a nice 18 with poison so it was very effective.

55 points per krox is just way to much IMO. Also if you have 10 and you get flank charged by.....well anything with any sort of combat skills you can kiss that unit goodbye. I'd rather lose a ton of cheap skinks with more shooting than a big giant expensive ones.

I just feel the unit is way more viable with a lot of skinks and very few Krox. I find the most dmg for point value out of having 1 krox.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I did not know that the kroxigor rank counts as 2 ranks, Where does it say that, perhaps in the FAQ?

Just to clarify: 1 rank of skinks and 1 rank of Kroxigors can fight . The rank of Kroxigors counts as 2 ranks, thus the 3rd real rank is not allowed to attack like it would normally be allowed to in a horde formation.

example of the formation:

ssssssssss
K K K K K
K K K K K
ssssssssss
ssssssssss
ssssssssss
ssssssssss
ssssssssss
ssssssssss
ssssssssss
 
kroxigores are place in second rank in your sample there are kroxis in 3rd rank so no you cant do that :/
 
Its not that there's more kroxigors, he's just showing the ranks that the kroxigors take up. Your diagram is correct, Angrymiguel.
 
The lizardmen book has rules on how to calculate unit widths and rank bonusses for units with different base sizes like skrox or TG/slann.

The mixed base size rule does not apply to supporting attacks as the supporting attack rule makes it clear that the deciding factor is if you are behind an eligible fighter not that you are in an eligible rank.

SSSSSSSSSS
S K K K K S
S S
s K K K SSs
s s ss ss ss ss
ss ss ss ss s s

The above is a representation of a nominal 10x8 skrox unit, the capital letters can all fight as they are all either in the front rank or have no more than 2 eligible figures in front of them.

A similar argument can be made for TG in the 4th rank of a horde formation if they are behind the slann.
 
Krox are Monstrous Infantry so they only have to be 3 wide to be in a Horde Formation.

So if you have 10 skinks in the front rank that qualifies them for being in a Horde Formation.

Krox as Monstrous Infantry get all their attacks when in a Horde formation and fight in 3 ranks.

So 10 Skinks up front with 5 Krox in 2nd rank and 5 Krox in the 3rd rank who all get to swing their full attacks.

Throw a Skink Chief with the Skaven Banner in there and you have a giant wreaking machine.
 
I disagree with that approach to counting horde attacks for a mixed unit. The rule book does not say that a model in a horde can fight if it is behind a normally fighting model, it specifically says that models in the 3rd rank can attack. For mixed skrox units, I think that a rank is defined as 20mm deep (the size of a skink base).

We've discussed this a few times in this forum and I don't think we'll ever get a definitive answer unless its addressed in an FAQ. This short thread (http://lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6510) does a good job of laying out my position - I think Gor-Rok's post on the top of the second page sums it up nicely.
 
MI_Tiger said:
I disagree with that approach to counting horde attacks for a mixed unit. The rule book does not say that a model in a horde can fight if it is behind a normally fighting model, it specifically says that models in the 3rd rank can attack. For mixed skrox units, I think that a rank is defined as 20mm deep (the size of a skink base).
Click to expand...

Just so I understand:

A SKROX unit with a frontage of 6 skinks, with a second rank of 3 Krox counts for combat res as having 3 ranks?
 
yep counts as 3 ranks.
 
SanDiegoSurrealist said:
MI_Tiger said:
I disagree with that approach to counting horde attacks for a mixed unit. The rule book does not say that a model in a horde can fight if it is behind a normally fighting model, it specifically says that models in the 3rd rank can attack. For mixed skrox units, I think that a rank is defined as 20mm deep (the size of a skink base).
Click to expand...

Just so I understand:

A SKROX unit with a frontage of 6 skinks, with a second rank of 3 Krox counts for combat res as having 3 ranks?
Click to expand...

That's how I see it, but I admit there is plenty of room for debate. I think it is more clear if the Krox don't cover the entire width (frontage of 7+ skinks with 3 Krox).
 
That is how I play it as well. However, a friend of mine recommended that I play it as the krox getting the "3rd" rank attacks in a horde formation with skinks 10 wide and 4 krox 2x2. The rules do not seem to be that clear. I could go both ways on it. The 2x2 ranking gives more skink attacks while you do not lose any krox attacks. But, I do not think that is the intent on the way they are supposed to play.
 
SanDiegoSurrealist said:
Krox are Monstrous Infantry so they only have to be 3 wide to be in a Horde Formation.

So if you have 10 skinks in the front rank that qualifies them for being in a Horde Formation.

Krox as Monstrous Infantry get all their attacks when in a Horde formation and fight in 3 ranks.

So 10 Skinks up front with 5 Krox in 2nd rank and 5 Krox in the 3rd rank who all get to swing their full attacks.

Throw a Skink Chief with the Skaven Banner in there and you have a giant wreaking machine.
Click to expand...

That would make sense if the Skinks where a kroxigor upgrade in the special slot....
But as is the Kroxogor are a upgrade to skinks in the core slot.

If you want a 6 kroxigors with suport attacks from other kroxogor, just leave the skinks home and take then separate,
 
There isn't a clear definition of what makes up a third rank. There is a clear definition of how to calculate rank bonusses with different size base models. A model with two ranks of models in front of it is in the third rank of that unit even is it counts as 4th rank for rank bonusses.

The fight in extra ranks special rule says that horde units with this rule fight with three ranks of supporting attacks, not that a fourth rank can fight.

However there is a more important reason why you cannot have krox making a supporting attack from the third/fourth or more rearward rank: krox in skrox units are only allowed in the 2nd rank (pg 53) or the first rank if you don't have enough skinks left to form a full front rank.

Therefore my final position is that the supporting and horde rules would allow krox to fight with supporting attacks from two ranks behind a skink front rank but the skrox rules won't allow it.
 
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