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AoS How do you deal with Nagash/Endless spell spam

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Jason839, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. Jason839
    Bastiladon

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    Planning to go to a tournament soon and this is one of the armies I am not sure how to Face. Any tactics on dealing with Nagash and his spells?
     
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  2. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Nagash can only cast one endless spell a turn. The Endless Spells won't become a real problem until turn two and three. My advice is to control the table and objectives and just accept what ever damage you will suffer.

    What is the list you plan to bring to the event? Maybe we can help you plan how to play vs Nagash using your specific list.
     
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  3. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    you can out dispel most Nagash lists... take an extra Starpriest (which makes sense with out new spell lore) and you have three dispels a turn to his one or two endless spells cast a turn
     
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  4. Jason839
    Bastiladon

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    I was planning on a standard double bastiladon thunderquake. It’s pretty low model count though so I’m not sure how it will deal with Nagash and a swarm of summoned undead.
     
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  5. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    If you get doubled turned you will be in a rough spot. Ideally you will get to go second followed by a double turn and kill his heroes before he can re-summon any units. Make sure you screen objectives asap to stop his units from hunkering down to win the game.
     
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  6. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    save points go double Stegadon with flamers, and get the extra startpriests. flamers schrek skelly hordes. also minimize your drops if you can. @LizardWizard I forget can DT take TQ?
     
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  7. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Sadly no, but FoS can. That would be pretty high tax though.
     
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  8. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    what you call a tax id call the death of the TQ... 30 saurs, SB Carno slann and then TQ.... rough.... id have to double check points (im at work) but im not even sure you could do it...unless you went trog/steg/steg and minimum FoS
     
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  9. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    If you run the Trog intead of EotGs and you only use 1 Razordon with Handlers than you can fit the list at exactly 2k. Not worth it imho, but it is technically usable.

    I believe it is better to settle for two drops while running Fircelance & Thunderquake. Perhaps something like this:

    Allegiance: Seraphon
    Mortal Realm: Ulgu

    Leaders:
    Slann Starmaster (260)
    - General
    - Trait: Great Rememberer
    - Artefact: Miasmatic Blade
    Engine of the Gods (240)
    - Artefact: Spellmirror
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
    - Artefact: Betrayer's Crown

    Battleline:
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances
    5 x Saurus Knights (80)
    - Lances

    Units:
    3 x Razordons (120)
    3 x Skink Handlers (40)

    Behemoths:
    Bastiladon
    (280)
    - Weapon: Solar Engine
    Bastiladon (280)
    - Weapon: Solar Engine

    Battalions:
    Thunderquake Starhost
    (120)
    Firelance Starhost (150)

    Endless Spells / Terrain
    Balewind Vortex
    (40)
    Chronomantic Cogs (80)

    Total: 1950 / 2000
    Extra Command Points: 2
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 82

    If you are willing to risk higher drops you could drop cogs and a Razordon to add in the Saurus Astrolith Bearer. Otherwise you should be able to summon it fairly early.
     
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  10. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    I do see a problem with the thunder quake list you have, while it has an insanely high damage output with double Bastiladons and the knights, it cannot take much damage in return, with nighthaunt and a bunch of endless spells their damage output would also be very high. I would suggest with that list to skink spam to roadblock the rapid nighthaunt units. That atleast is my personal experience playing them, however if I missed something, please point it out as the list is pretty cool
     
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  11. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Agreed. The Saurus Knights will crumble in the first two turns. Hopefully by then you have enough CCP and are lucky with EotGs rolls to replenish your lines.
     
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  12. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the EotG should be very helpful in stopping the army from being totally overrun and buying you some time, but if the strategy is to just buy time for more summons a bad EotG roll could put that in danger. It would put us on the back foot from the get go, and would require some very good rolls for survival. I do agree though that ccp can delay them long enough for the Bastiladons to get in good damage.

    Win or lose, two Bastiladons is awesome!
     
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  13. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    I am not a huge fan of Thunderquake for the reasons you mentioned. I much prefer having a fully fleshed out summoning apparatus and some Ripperdactyls.
     
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  14. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    There are 2 main problems with Nagash. And I know because that's how i play the Guy..

    1 - what kind of friends he takes with him? Because a list with Vampire Lord on ZD + large units of Black knight (plus necromancer) is doable, and puts a lot of hurt as you suffer heavy pressure by multiple dangerous targets. In the meantime, 3 units of dire wolves / chainrasps go and take objectives

    2 - Hand of dust + umbral spellportal. Since turn 2 everything in your army is at risk to be one-shotted
     
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  15. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    A vampire lord on zombie dragon is killable, along with black knights. I find that in particular the vampire lord on zombie dragon can be focused down and killed. It may be 400 ish points, but it only has 14 wounds and a 3+. Killing it with say a carnosaur, a round of shooting with some Bastiladons, ripperdactyls, or a big blob of saurus can do it in. As for the black knights they have similarly awful damage output to our knights, so they can be tied down.
     
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  16. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    3 extra command points.... you are only at 1950 and have 2 battalions.
     
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  17. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Yep, I didn't spend the Points for the CP. It is certainly possible to do so.
     
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  18. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    my understanding of the rules is you don't SPEND the points. you just get them for every 50 you are under the limit.
     
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  19. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    This was the case before the new GHB. As of now you have to pay 50 points to get Cp. This means you no longer get the Triumph out of buying CP.
     
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  20. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    Smart move on their part. thanks for the update.
     
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