8th Ed. How to make people fear TG?

[Mr Phat]

if you ARE using Kroak, add Tetto also.

His re-roll 1's together with kroaks infinite cast and miscast protection is REALLY something.

 

[Stuntyogre]

Oh I totally put a skink priest in the unit with Kroak, but before each game I left the unit empty of characters and very deliberately and with full explanation of how Kroak's rule is worded put him in last. Of course once the priest left his grossly oversized bunker I knew he could never go back. I never got a complaint or docked any sportsmanship on it

Edit: the Priest had MR on him to give the unit another layer of protection

 

[Mr Phat]

hah, thats a way to do it.
Cant see any legal issues

Just started using Kroak myself, and I didnt even think about that he doesnt HAVE to be in the unit.

1.This way you can put anything into that unit
2.gambit that he will live through 1st turn if you dont get it yourself
3.put him in the unit at the cost of 1'' movement from the fellas

I LIKE THIS.

Put a oldblood wearing Fencers blades and glittering scales in there!

worst case scenario he is hit on 6's, best he is hit on 7's
adding tetto to the mix for Curse of the midnight wind, and he will probably never get touched.

 

[Lizard-man87]

I am building a list to face high elves this week, can any of you clarify the rules for putting anyone other than standard fc in a TG unit with Kroak in it?

 

[SilverFaith]

You cant put anything in with him.

He makes the unit unbreakable, and nothing that isnt unbreakable can join it.

so its Kroak and TG solo.

EDIT: which works just fint btw!

Chakax can as well. Though he is an overpriced crappy character, so you probably don't want to do that. Or at least, since he grants a unit of TG+guy with a mage priest palanquinn rule "unbreakable", it stands to reason that he gains it too, so joining a unit of temple guard with a slann, even if they are already unbreakable, would make him unbreakable as well, and thus be legal.

I don't know anyone who accepts the other ruling. He makes himself and his temple guards unbreakable, not characters. But that's just how I see the rule.

EDIT: Worth pointing out that you are always hit on 6s in CC, even if modifiers would take you beyond that. Clearly defined in the rulebook.

 

[Lizard-man87]

Ok cheers so instead I think I will have a cowboy or Krox to flank whatever they face to add combat res that would normally be gained for a character/old blood. So the combat will have some bite incase the fighting doesn't go well.
What do you mean about the hitting in 6's chances are I will aim this unit at the opponents toughest set and get in in ASAP

 

[hdctambien]

I don't know anyone who accepts the other ruling. He makes himself and his temple guards unbreakable, not characters. But that's just how I see the rule

"If Lord Kroak joins a unit of Temple Guard, all models in the combined unit gain the Unbreakable special rule."

It seems like that would include any other characters in the unit.

 

[SilverFaith]

But only if he joins after the character joined the group? And not the other way around?

That doesn't sound right to me. Though that does mean my interpretation is not really RAW (or maybe it is, I haven't actually checked it through), but it just sounds wrong. It means i could join a character by making Kroak leave, join the character, and then join Kroak. This roundabout way of doing it tells me that something about the application of the rules is beng done wrong.

Otherwise, you should go all the way and say "characters, even those unbreakable, that joins the unit, would immediately become unbreakable, making it legal to join a TG unit with kroak." If you did that, I would be far more likely to agree with you.

 

[hdctambien]

It means i could join a character by making Kroak leave, join the character, and then join Kroak. This roundabout way of doing it tells me that something about the application of the rules is beng done wrong.

Why does Kroak have to start in the Temple Guard?

Is there some restriction on Kroak joining a unit that contains characters?

If Kroak joins a unit, and some of the models in that unit happen to be Characters, it seems to me that the RAW says that those characters would gain the Unbreakable special rule.

Otherwise, you should go all the way and say "characters, even those unbreakable, that joins the unit, would immediately become unbreakable, making it legal to join a TG unit with kroak." If you did that, I would be far more likely to agree with you.

Nobody is arguing that Characters can join a TG unit with Kroak in it mid-game. Only that Kroak can join a unit that already contains characters.

The real question comes down to:

Does order matter during the deployment phase when you deploy characters? Can you deploy a SV into a unit of TG and then deploy Kroak into that unit? Or do you have to deploy Kroak outside the unit, then spend your first turn moving Kroak into the unit?

 

[Lizard-man87]

Ok so here's an idea of my list to play high elves with a heavier TG focus than I have used before, it is not finished as I need to tweak my lords as I am overpriced.

TG unit x 40 with lord Kroak, razor standard, full command including ttetko

Skink priest level 2 heavens , dispel scroll, power stone, (not sure where to put him yet)

Saurus x 24 full command
Old blood general with skavenpelt banner, L armour, shield, g weapon and luck stone
Scar vet in unit p, BSB , l amour, g weapon, shield and down stone

Bastiladon - solar engine

Jungle swarm x 2

Ancient stegadon - bow, unstoppable stampede, sharpened horns,

Ripperdactyl x 3

Salamander hp x 2 with additional handlers

Skink skirmishers x 20 (2 units)

Chameleon skinks x 6

I am playing a good high elf player, question I think is am I losing flexibility in casting and buffs within my TG by having Kroak? What do you think? Any feedback would be great, thanks.

 

[hdctambien]

The Kroak List is more about running skinks all over the place and spamming his spell through them... then cleaning up with the Temple Guard if necessary. It works well against elves because they are so squishy.

Especially combined with a comet or two from Tetto.

You might find it more effective to have another Priest (with the flying cloak) and possibly a Troglodon.

This isn't really a "fear the Temple Guard" list as it is a "fear the Kroak Bomb" list. But it should be effective.

 

[Lizard-man87]

Ok, how could I make it more 'fear the temple guard' I suppose getting rid of Kroak would give more opportunity to buff however I would like to keep Kroak really. I will add more skink priests where possible.

 

[hdctambien]

Ok, how could I make it more 'fear the temple guard' I suppose getting rid of Kroak would give more opportunity to buff however I would like to keep Kroak really. I will add more skink priests where possible.

I think if you want your Temple Guard to instill fear into your opponent you need to use the Temple Guard to crush his most powerful unit. IF you do that once or twice your opponent will probably modify his tactics/builds to avoid/handle the Temple Guard (which will give you the opportunity to adjust your list to use the TG as a distraction and try other fancy tactics)

I think you can run Kroak and play such that your TG are scary. I would drop/reduce the regular Saurus you have and put in some Skink/Skrox units to place Tetto'ekko in (rather than putting him in the Temple Guard)

Keep Tetto behind the TG and close enough to buff them.

Aim to get your TG into battle, and use tetto to buff the battle (reroll 1's is great, Reroll 6's + Iceshard is nice too)

Use Kroak's spell through Vassels to blast away chaff and Eagles. Vanguard the TG forward and get into combat as soon as possible. Since you're unbreakable, you won't be going anywhere. And combat will protect you from Magic Missiles/Direct Damage/Bolt Throwers better than MR(3) ever will.

I like to run big Skrox units next to my Temple Guard to protect their flank with a decent steadfast unit (not hte one with Tetto'ekko in it).

Like I said, this is a little different than the standard Kroak strategy which is to conserve points in the TG and blast away chaff for a small win.

I like to run a Slann with Skavenpelt Banner in my TG with the Razor Banner and 2 scar vets. Makes them pretty dangerous. Especially with Tetto able to vanguard them forward. I'm going to try using Fire Magic this week. Fireballs to blast away chaff, Flame Cage/Cascading Fire-Cloak to protect my flanks from charges, and Flaming Sword of Rhuin to buff the TG. I'm also running 2 Troglodons.

That's a scary unit.

 

[Screamer]

Ok so here's an idea of my list to play high elves with a heavier TG focus than I have used before, it is not finished as I need to tweak my lords as I am overpriced.

TG unit x 40 with lord Kroak, razor standard, full command including ttetko

Skink priest level 2 heavens , dispel scroll, power stone, (not sure where to put him yet)

Saurus x 24 full command
Old blood general with skavenpelt banner, L armour, shield, g weapon and luck stone
Scar vet in unit p, BSB , l amour, g weapon, shield and down stone

Bastiladon - solar engine

Jungle swarm x 2

Ancient stegadon - bow, unstoppable stampede, sharpened horns,

Ripperdactyl x 3

Salamander hp x 2 with additional handlers

Skink skirmishers x 20 (2 units)

Chameleon skinks x 6

I am playing a good high elf player, question I think is am I losing flexibility in casting and buffs within my TG by having Kroak? What do you think? Any feedback would be great, thanks.

its not legal...
can't have 2 arcane items on the priest.
can't have magic standard on old blood
can't have both magic item and magic standard on the same model unless it's a slann.

Apart from that: divide the skinks to have 4x10 instead.
drop the extra priest.
drop the steg.
drop swarms.
drop chameleons.
drop rippers, they are not good against elves.
add cowboys until you run out of points.

 

[Lizard-man87]

Ok, how could I make it more 'fear the temple guard' I suppose getting rid of Kroak would give more opportunity to buff however I would like to keep Kroak really. I will add more skink priests where possible.

I think if you want your Temple Guard to instill fear into your opponent you need to use the Temple Guard to crush his most powerful unit. IF you do that once or twice your opponent will probably modify his tactics/builds to avoid/handle the Temple Guard (which will give you the opportunity to adjust your list to use the TG as a distraction and try other fancy tactics)

I think you can run Kroak and play such that your TG are scary. I would drop/reduce the regular Saurus you have and put in some Skink/Skrox units to place Tetto'ekko in (rather than putting him in the Temple Guard)

Keep Tetto behind the TG and close enough to buff them.

Aim to get your TG into battle, and use tetto to buff the battle (reroll 1's is great, Reroll 6's + Iceshard is nice too)

Use Kroak's spell through Vassels to blast away chaff and Eagles. Vanguard the TG forward and get into combat as soon as possible. Since you're unbreakable, you won't be going anywhere. And combat will protect you from Magic Missiles/Direct Damage/Bolt Throwers better than MR(3) ever will.

I like to run big Skrox units next to my Temple Guard to protect their flank with a decent steadfast unit (not hte one with Tetto'ekko in it).

Like I said, this is a little different than the standard Kroak strategy which is to conserve points in the TG and blast away chaff for a small win.

I like to run a Slann with Skavenpelt Banner in my TG with the Razor Banner and 2 scar vets. Makes them pretty dangerous. Especially with Tetto able to vanguard them forward. I'm going to try using Fire Magic this week. Fireballs to blast away chaff, Flame Cage/Cascading Fire-Cloak to protect my flanks from charges, and Flaming Sword of Rhuin to buff the TG. I'm also running 2 Troglodons.

That's a scary unit.

Ah did realise the illegalities!

I always struggle to put a skrox unit in as they are so easily beaten but a flank unit for protection has more purpose. I think it might be more beneficial to run that build you mentioned with a slann and the skaven pelt banner etc. so many options!!
I haven't used Kroak yet so I will stick with him for this fight.


From the other reply - I will pull out the rippers and look at others to fit some cowboys in as everyone loves a cowboy!

 

[Lizard-man87]

Ok so here's an idea of my list to play high elves with a heavier TG focus than I have used before, it is not finished as I need to tweak my lords as I am overpriced.

TG unit x 40 with lord Kroak, razor standard, full command including ttetko

Skink priest level 2 heavens , dispel scroll, power stone, (not sure where to put him yet)

Saurus x 24 full command
Old blood general with skavenpelt banner, L armour, shield, g weapon and luck stone
Scar vet in unit p, BSB , l amour, g weapon, shield and down stone

Bastiladon - solar engine

Jungle swarm x 2

Ancient stegadon - bow, unstoppable stampede, sharpened horns,

Ripperdactyl x 3

Salamander hp x 2 with additional handlers

Skink skirmishers x 20 (2 units)

Chameleon skinks x 6

I am playing a good high elf player, question I think is am I losing flexibility in casting and buffs within my TG by having Kroak? What do you think? Any feedback would be great, thanks.

its not legal...
can't have 2 arcane items on the priest.
can't have magic standard on old blood
can't have both magic item and magic standard on the same model unless it's a slann.

Apart from that: divide the skinks to have 4x10 instead.
drop the extra priest.
drop the steg.
drop swarms.
drop chameleons.
drop rippers, they are not good against elves.
add cowboys until you run out of points.

If I remove the magic item can the old blood take a magic standard? Is it just the magic items that conflict or is there an issue with the magic standard

 

[hdctambien]

If I remove the magic item can the old blood take a magic standard? Is it just the magic items that conflict or is there an issue with the magic standard

Only Scar Vets and Slann can be the BSB. So, an Old Blood cannot carry a Magic Standard, or any Standard at all.