8th Ed. How would you bring in a newbie?

[Scalenex]

My main gaming friend and I have two full armies between us (and a few tertiary armies mostly for modeling fun).

We have another friend that would be interested in playing Warhammer if he didn't have to spend much money (he said he wouldn't mind playing with Lego men). It just so happens that my friend's secondary army (Orcs and Goblins) and my secondary army (Empire) are his favorite two Warhammer armies.

What points size, army builds, and scenarios would you use to try to help a newbie get an enjoyable first game if you can't find another newbie for them to play? Is playing a soft list a good idea? Or is a better learning experience if you don't pull your punches?

 

[thedanman13]

I'm having a similar problem after weeks of pondering my girlfriend finally decided that she would like to join the warhammer community with Beastmen so I bought her a basic army (battalion + heroes) which we are currently building. It's all good fun right now but once it's all built up I'm afraid I'll chase her off by crushing her in our first game :L I could always go really easy and let her win but where's the lesson in that? Plus, she could then think it's too easy and boring!

I suppose it's probably best to just play newbies as normal in order to give then the truest taste of the game but it's a dilemma for sure

 

[Geist]

Play him in a few small games...enough to have maybe 2-3 large squads and one mage. Start slow like that.

Don't pull punches but don't be a jackhammer either...just play kinda a mediocre game, realizing that it truly doesn't matter who wins or loses. The most important part is that he LEARNS and enjoys himself.

Once you get the basics of hand to hand combat, movement, shooting, and magic down, youc an start to do stuff like add cavalry or add flyers or monsters or the like.

Start small and work your way up. That's how I was introduced to fantasy and it really helped. I look back on those initial games rather fondly.

 

[sirkently]

With new players, I find it best to provide a running commentary. Explain what you are doing and why in the movement phase, the magic phase, the shooting phase, and the close combat phase. Do this for both players, as in tell them what you would do and why with there army in each phase.

Try to provide options that they can choose between whenever possible. And obviously don't insist they follow your advice. But this will give them a lesson on what to think about when playing there army.

 

[eppe]

I like to have someone who's played before sit on the side of the new player and have them play someone else who is aware it's a newbie game. The "trainer" advises about rules and gives tactical advice, but don't TELL them what to do. You have to let the person make their choices.

As the opponent don't bring an optimized list. Bring something that is fun to play AGAINST and not super strong. This will make "pulling punches" easier and the other person wont feel so overwhelmed. You don't have to let them win BUT you need to ensure it's a close game. If you crush them in Turn 1 they wont want to play anymore unless they are dead set on playing... in which case they already probably bought an army.

 

[Scalenex]

I like to have someone who's played before sit on the side of the new player and have them play someone else who is aware it's a newbie game. The "trainer" advises about rules and gives tactical advice, but don't TELL them what to do. You have to let the person make their choices.

As the opponent don't bring an optimized list. Bring something that is fun to play AGAINST and not super strong. This will make "pulling punches" easier and the other person wont feel so overwhelmed. You don't have to let them win BUT you need to ensure it's a close game. If you crush them in Turn 1 they wont want to play anymore unless they are dead set on playing... in which case they already probably bought an army.

So Troglodons

 

[Arraine]

If all else fails and the newbie is getting grumpy hope for a glorious miscast with a big bad explosion. Nothing breaks the tension like a self destructing skink (or any other wizard...)

 

[saga]

I would put together two 600 pt lists. Make sure both armies can participate in some way in all phases of the game.

Try to provide just enough information to make sure your friend can make basic decisions about movement, shooting, charging. I would not worry too much about front loading with information about combat resolution, miscasts and all the various subrules and exceptions. Explain them as they arise organically.

 

[thedanman13]

In that case I'll be 6 dicing wildform!

 

[Lizardmatt]

Pull some punches for the first few games.
Build one of those, a little bit of everything lists.

1500 points is a good learning size.

So, something like this:
Old blood, light armor, enchanted shield, sword of might. General.
Scar Vet: BSB, light armor, shield, sword of striking, dragon helm
Skink Priest, level 2, heavens (try and get a direct damage/magic missile and a hex or augment)

2x14 saurus, full command
16 skinks, 2 krox
10 skink skirmishers
10 skink cohorts

Bastiladon with laser
3 Terradons
1 Salamanders

That should let you show the value of fighting characters, without them being stupidly good, show what a mix of damage spells vs hex/augments, some flying redirecting units and a salamander for one of those "kill this asap" type target selections.
Then you've got a nice soft monster so she can get the feel of terror and stomps.


For the beast side, I'd go with the same type of set up.
Beast lord, BSB, and 1 wizard (with a ruby ring), 2 blocks of infantry (horde of gors and smaller block of bestigors), a chariot, a unit of minotaur, a chariot, then some dogs and maybe a small harpy unit.


For the first game, just figuring out basics like how to move units on the table, how to count combat resolution, and basics of the magic phase is good. If she figures out that Big Guys are better than little guys, that's good too. If she figures out poison shooting is mean, target that, that's better.

Ideally, you want to hit her army hard enough that she sees the value, and that she hits you hard enough that she sees the value in her own units. You don't want to go 100%, as you don't lose much when you have to pick up whole units.

 

[Axolotyl]

I find the value of making mistakes is the best way to learn, I learnt a long time ago that just because its a "hero" dosent mean it can fight, that means you skink priest!

If your newbie is uncertain, I find that playing a game where they *should* win is great to showcase how their units work, then play a normal game after so that they know what to try and achieve.

Just be mindful of the fact that its hard enough remembering your own army book at first, let alone BRB AND the other guys army. I guess what im saying is avoid using too many rules, gear and spells, go core troop types, ie infantry, skirmishers and ranged with melee heroes with basic gear, get streamlined with that and im sure the rest will click if you steadily introduce them

 

[Madrck]

I'm currently in the learning phase, and I'm learning against somebody that has real problems pulling his punches. Thankfully I already have a fair understanding of D&D style rulesets and I'm insanely competitive.
We started out at 1500 point armies with no level 4 magic (played a game eventually with high slann and he had green sun, needless to say we don't play level 4's in 1500 point games anymore). He basically built sup optimal lists. No savage orcs, light artillery ect.... Our first 2400point game he let me just pick a unit he couldn't field out of his list (was a mistake, he lost and now plays alot more seriously hahahaha) Cold One bus ftw.

But the biggest help is him letting me know WHY he's angling a unit just so, or why you don't set up on the line, or just how important being in range to reroll an Ld test.
But the best way for you to teach, is to set yourself a challenge. You know you could just field 2 cannons, sit on a hill and soften her army up till it's just stupid to charge. Try doing the same thing with 1 cannon (so she knows just how much to hate them and why we field Terradons). And going horde formation with your main block instead of making it a steadfast beast that will let you counter charge ect.. Set your own challenges or you'll have no fun and she won't understand why you enjoy WH so much. Make sure you are still having fun, chores are fun for nobody.

On a side note I lost my first game to a unit of 10 shades, be careful what you think is soft to begin with, because you'll flat out rule the movement phase until she learns what her units are aiming to do. And what magic will make you scared. who knew wyssans is normally stronger then tranformation, not always, not even often. but it certainly is an eye opener when it swings combat in your favour by alot. Hope it helps

 

[eppe]

I also want to add my buddy is getting his son involved by using Lego's and doing Warhammer "light" rules so he learns the basic strategy. I'm teaching my two kids to play with Dreadfleet and having them battle each other while I just run the game.

 

[olderplayer]

We've thought a lot about getting newbies into the game. Some of the issues GW is having with WHFB are the upfront cost in time and money required to even play a decent game and the learning cuirve, frustration level of newer players with the number and complexity of the rules.

One solution is to construct small "warband" rules for escalation and beginning play. Playing a number of small "warband" games with 500 to 750 to 1000 points can be very useful for learning the game. They will go a lot faster and allow you to restart the game and play more games whenever any of the games begin to turn into a massacre. Consider the following types of warband restrictions.
1. Play on a 4' by 4' table to reduce the size up to say 1400 points.
2. Consider limiting winds of magic to 2D3, instead of 2D6, power dice and then the dispel dice are the greater of the D3 and limiting magic to a level one or two; alternatively, eliminate the magic phase.
3. Consider initially limiting characters to one hero or a special rule for upgrading any unit champion in a unit to a character with a 25 magic point allotment and paying the cost of an extra rank and file model to get to two wounds on the unit champion (with no hero or lord characters). (For multi-wound rank and file champions, like Ogres, the additional wound cost is the cost per wound of a standard rank and file model.)
4. Simlarly, a unit champion can be ungraded to a lvl 1 mage for 35 points and a lvl 2 mage for 70 points. Make the points bonus for killilng to army general (or champion) 25 points. Allow a champion with two wounds to upgrade to a BSB for 25 points.
5. Consider letting units rank up a 4 wide for standard infantry, 3 wide for cav (sort of Brett rules for cav), and 2 wide for monstrous units (infantry, cav, beast).
6. Limit unit sizes in terms of wounds, points, models.
7. Limit certain unit types: such as one or zero monsters; one war machine; or one flying unit (limited size or points total).
8. Allow for smaller units such that minimum unit size of 10 becomes 6, 5 becomes 4 for infantry and 3 for cav units, 3 becomes 2.

Since the point is to learn the game and have fun, build two equally matched armies to play each other for each game and consider varying the matched lists for each game played (including playing different armies or switching armies). In varying the army lists, make sure you play with the correct base sizes but do not be afraid to proxy models and units so as to allows for play-testing of different styles of armies. (This won't work in a GW store but is a great way to stretch the budget in casual play, which even GW does proxy when play-testing new concepts for new models.) Alternatively, if hyou are afraid of outplaying the opponent and want a challenge, give the less-experienced opponent a points advantage (like ETC does for inferior armies) or make sure your army is slightly inferior.

I am not a fan of pulling the punches or playing non-optimally in a game. I'd rather help my opponent build a competitive list (or being given an advantage upfront), make sure that all special rules and abilities in my army and his army are understood (rather than having to learn all of the special rules), and then give hints as to my intentions during play or selective warnings and advice during play. I don't think one learns proper play by playing non-optimal opponents or playing non-optimally and you both will tend to learn bad habits playing non-optimally.

My youngest son started playing casual skirmish games (LOTR) at ages 11 or 12 and then graduated to full warhammer battles and able to play in tournaments by ages 14-15 and was placing consistently in GTs by ages 16-17 (playing Lizardmen and Daemons armies) by using this framework.