Skink Chief
Mr Phat
9th Age Army Support
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Whenever I talk lizardmen pros and cons compared to other armies I always get the "your Saurus have toughness 4" line thrown at me as if it makes up for all flaws concerning Lizzies and close combat.
I put my money down on this statement:
"Lizardmen troops cant compete in close combat, as T4 does not hold up in a S5+ saturated environment"
Saurus combat abilities sits with their T4 S4 A2 statline
(I keep leadership and cold blood out of it as we are talking WINNING combat)
This is good on paper compared to other infantry, and paired with a 4+ (3+ for Temple Guards) it has great effect when taking S3 and S4 shooting.
This means our troops are resilient on their way to the fight, and so far the points are well spend, but this is where it breaks, at least in my meta.
When I go to a tournament (ETC environment) I rarely meet infantry/ cc units with lower than S5 which isn't tarpits, and usually that infantry has bigger WS and Close combat oriented abilities.
This means that Saurus, Templeguard and kroxes T4 means very little on the outcome of the battle, and even though a 6+ armor save is better than no armor save (as when the enemy elite infantry is S6) , I find it very rarely does a difference.
I almost always find myself along these lines.
against S5 infantry
we usually have more attacks
we strike last
we hit worse than them
we wound equally well as them
we usually end up with the same armor save
our combat special rules loses in efficiency against their combat special rules
we take more wounds than them
we lose combat by a few
while this is acceptable and can be swayed in a grind due to coldblooded, I would hardly call T4 a balancing factor.
this is when our "core meets their core" in my meta. T4 does its thing and is somewhat worth the points we pay for it.
all in all acceptable.
Here is how "our elites meets their elites/ some core"
We usually have the same amount of attacks
we strike first due to them USUALLY having greatweapons, unless they are elves
we hit worse than them
We wound equally or worse than them (T4 is out of effect but we still pay for it)
We usually end up with worse armour/ward save
our combat special rules loses in efficiency against their combat special rules
we take more wounds than them
we lose combat by a lot
This leaves us paying for a statline that does not have an effect, and to me it seems like other armies get more for that one point of toughness, as T4 is just exactly just enought to be nullfied by the big amount of High strength attacks our there.
pair this with our inability to get greatweapons on infantry and get the most out of our low initiative and all of a sudden we come out quite awkward for a combat-bred race.
Please note I do know that T4 is useful in many more aspects than close combat, and that other races envy us for it. I just like to point out that they overvalue it, and I am a little uneasy by the thought that Games Workshop does the same.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
Does T4 come into play a lot in your meta?
I would really like to hear the point of view from some one with elven armies where the T3 really shows.
I put my money down on this statement:
"Lizardmen troops cant compete in close combat, as T4 does not hold up in a S5+ saturated environment"
Saurus combat abilities sits with their T4 S4 A2 statline
(I keep leadership and cold blood out of it as we are talking WINNING combat)
This is good on paper compared to other infantry, and paired with a 4+ (3+ for Temple Guards) it has great effect when taking S3 and S4 shooting.
This means our troops are resilient on their way to the fight, and so far the points are well spend, but this is where it breaks, at least in my meta.
When I go to a tournament (ETC environment) I rarely meet infantry/ cc units with lower than S5 which isn't tarpits, and usually that infantry has bigger WS and Close combat oriented abilities.
This means that Saurus, Templeguard and kroxes T4 means very little on the outcome of the battle, and even though a 6+ armor save is better than no armor save (as when the enemy elite infantry is S6) , I find it very rarely does a difference.
I almost always find myself along these lines.
against S5 infantry
we usually have more attacks
we strike last
we hit worse than them
we wound equally well as them
we usually end up with the same armor save
our combat special rules loses in efficiency against their combat special rules
we take more wounds than them
we lose combat by a few
while this is acceptable and can be swayed in a grind due to coldblooded, I would hardly call T4 a balancing factor.
this is when our "core meets their core" in my meta. T4 does its thing and is somewhat worth the points we pay for it.
all in all acceptable.
Here is how "our elites meets their elites/ some core"
We usually have the same amount of attacks
we strike first due to them USUALLY having greatweapons, unless they are elves
we hit worse than them
We wound equally or worse than them (T4 is out of effect but we still pay for it)
We usually end up with worse armour/ward save
our combat special rules loses in efficiency against their combat special rules
we take more wounds than them
we lose combat by a lot
This leaves us paying for a statline that does not have an effect, and to me it seems like other armies get more for that one point of toughness, as T4 is just exactly just enought to be nullfied by the big amount of High strength attacks our there.
pair this with our inability to get greatweapons on infantry and get the most out of our low initiative and all of a sudden we come out quite awkward for a combat-bred race.
Please note I do know that T4 is useful in many more aspects than close combat, and that other races envy us for it. I just like to point out that they overvalue it, and I am a little uneasy by the thought that Games Workshop does the same.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
Does T4 come into play a lot in your meta?
I would really like to hear the point of view from some one with elven armies where the T3 really shows.
