THIRD ROUND the other 2 obj fall. the one in the opponent's territory lands on my left. the one in mine, lands at the centre. We roll, but again no double turn for me. FREE PEOPLE's turn That is going to hurt. The general orders to "stand and shoot" (basically, no one of the shooting units will move, but they'll gain +1 to hit and wound), and he's also ready to charge my carnosaur. The survived guards go and take the far left obj. Shooting: the crossbowmen do some damage to the carnosaur (not so much, tnx to Starlight which is still on) the few survived handgunners, the outriders and one helblaster wipe the 4 sallies. the 2nd helblaster inflicts only 2 damages to the last Engine the volleygun jams again. (is this a sort of divine compensation for the luck in the battleshock tests? i like to believe so) In combat, the general is a terrifying machine, but I've got some protection tnx to starlight and i also roll a 6 on saves when it was needed the most. THe Carno is still alive with 1 wound! the oldblood punishes the crossbowmen, but the heavily wounded carno is not able to scratch the griffon. Free People controls only 1 obj, for 3 points. Seraphon 2 - Free People 3 SERAPHON's turn As often happens this is going to be decisive. And i want to take ALL the obj. Hero phase. the carno cannot stand where it is now. LoSaT on him… i roll a 6. Horray! no need to charge bonuses, so i set the cogs on an additional spell. Summon Starlight on the last engine. The last engine does 5 mortal wounds to the crew of the "full" helblaster. goodbye. I fail to teleport the skinks on the central obj. Move phase: spend a cp to have the starpriest run for 6" +1", to take control on the obj on my side. the carnosaur moves near the guards that occupy the far left obj the Engine moves to charge the survived handgunners. the razors move i collect 13+3 conj pts. With the 11 from the previous turn, they are 27 I spend 24 of them to conjure 4 sallies, nearby the handlers Shoot. Here we go, left to right: oldblood's gauntlet + skinks kill 3 guards the razors kill the crew of the volleygun. the second warmachine is gone, now there's only the last (crippled) helblaster. the summoned sallies (also tnx to rerolls granted by the Astrolith bearer) melt the outriders (3 survive, flee with battleshock). Charge. the carnosaur charges the guards, kills them all and takes the obj. the Engine charges the handgunners without suffering a single wound tnx to starlight, and kills 'em all. This was a really solid turn. I control all the obj (that now are worth 3 points each) and I've killed all the units on both the flanks. Free People remains with a full general, a dozen crossbowmen, a crippled warmachine with lord ordinator and gunmaster. Seraphon 11 - Free People 3 FOURTH ROUND sooner or later, it had to happen I win the roll, so double turn for me. This kills the game: i will keep control of the 3 obj, taking 12 pts, which will take me to 23 - 3 the Engine and my shooting will kill without effort the last few shooting units of the Free People, leaving only the general on Griffon My opponent surrenders with a handshake. MAJOR VICTORY FOR SERAPHON
Brief considerations My main concern is that i really wanted to try the triple Engine, but wasn't really able to do it. I will need to test it again against a different army, to see its power. Regarding the game… it was not an easy one… my superior move was a sure advantage, but a defensive, shooting army is a tough nut to crack. Some errors were made from my part: i was too much confident in some cases: i've pretended too much from my teleported razordons in the first turn: to shoot the handgunners and to charge the crews of 2 warmachines (the effort wasn't concentrated, so the results were minimal). Firing one unit and charging the other one, would have eliminated 2/3 of the warmachines. Also in the first turn, the sacrifice of the skinks on the left was a weak move Regarding the dices… The carnosaur performed badly, with awfull rolls…. but on the other side, my rolls for LoSaT were pretty good. The same can be said for my opponent: excellent rolls with the battleshock tests, poor rolls with the volleygun. So, all in all, rolls weren't decisive. The tactic was. I knew i had to keep my opponent under pressure, to play the game of objectives, and so i did. Once again, this is the demonstration you must force your opponent to adapt to your tactic: if you manage to do it, half of the work is done.
I think we can all agree that had the 18 for the EoTG been allowed, you would have won on the mobility and the raw amount of mortal wounds really was too much for him to handle. Good game and keep these reports coming.
Yeah, my friend's comment was something as "it seems like i was back in time 13 years ago. Trying to understand what was hitting me ". The fact is: Seraphon are a difficult army to master. But it's even more difficult to play against them, if you're not used to ... we really have a so large amount of options that is hard to keep us at bay. Our warscrolls are outdated, but our actual abilities are at the top.
The report actually did give me a couple of ideas for some tactics we could try implementing. Really our biggest issue is in head to head combat. While Carnosaurs are (at least in my experience) effective killers of large monsters and units, they do struggle against heavily armored infantry. Arguably our best lizard is those razordons coupled with some buffs.
Given that in the last battle I was unsatisfied by the triple EotG, as i was unable to use it, i've decided to play it once again. A friend of mine plays Fyreslayers and of course now wants to use them, given the new shiny toys they received with the battletome. so… Seraphon (3 EotG) Vs Fyreslayers (2000 pts) Battleplan TOTAL COMMITMENT 4 obj placed at the centre of the side panels; the ones on your side are worth 1 pt, the ones in the enemy's camp are 3 pts each.. you cannot have units placed in reserve. Army Lists SERAPHON (mortal real: Ghur) - Slann (general, Great Rememberer, Gryph-feather Charm) - EotG - EotG - EotG - ASTROLITH Bearer - OLDBLOOD on CARNO - 3 SALAMANDERS - 3 RAZORDONS - 3 RAZORDONS - 3 HANDLERS - 10 SKINKS (shield, bolt) - 10 SKINKS (shield, bolt) - 10 SKINKS (shield, bolt) Endless spell: Chronomantic Cogs It's a massive summoning list, that plays around the triple Engine, plus a Slann w cogs and astrolith. multiple razors / sallies for target saturation. a lot of drops, so at least i can choose where to set my most precious units knowing my opponent's deployment I plan / hope to summon a Starpriest turn one, to buff the carno that i will teleport turn 2 to cause mayhem. FYRESLAYERS my opponent explained to me the list, but frankly i don't recall many things, so take it as it comes. If i can obtain some additional info i'll update it. - Runefather (general, ???, ???) - Runeson on Magmadroth - Runesmither - Runemaster - Battlesmith - Doomseeker - 10 vulkite berserker - 10 vulkite berserker - 10 vulkite berserker - 20 hearthguard berserker (these ones proxied by space marines: the models are not yet arrived) plus the Forge and a magmic invocation (flame spitter) Hermdar Lodge: don't take battleshock if nearby an obj; vulkite and herthguards can attack first in combat Battalions: Lords of the Lodge (hearthguards can pile in and attack twice) basically a very hard to kill list (the weakest model got 2 wounds, and hearthguards got 4+ fnp if near 10" to any hero!), and strong melee Set-Up Left: I place a unit of skinks (hidden behind a building) and the carnosaur then a strong centre: 3 razors, 2 razors, 3 EotG shielded by 10 skinks, with Slann and Astro Bearer behind, then sallies with handlers Rigth: 10 skinks on the obj basically, i was following the deployment of my opponent, concentrating forces, ready to shift the pressure where needed. the plan is to resist the incoming attack and counterattack the enemy's obj with teleport later in the game Fireslayers are placed in this way: left obj: 10 vulkite + Doomseeker centre: 10 vulkite ahead, 3 heroes, 20 hearthguards then the magmadroth behind a building right oby: 10 Vulkite My opponent takes the first turn. Well, i would have let him go first, so it works for me! The constellation gives me a +1 to cast Let's go!
FIRST ROUND FYRESLAYERS' turn Heroes do heroes' things that i don't recall. the vulkite on the sides consolidate near their obj. all the rest runs toward me, so basically nothing happened. Fyreslayers take 2 obj points SERAPHON's turn Let the fun begins! hero phase: i successfully cast the Cogs 1st Engine… summon (rippers to deal with the magmadroth, the one unit that cannot fight first than me) 2nd Engine... summon! (screen of 20 skinks) 3rd Engine… summon!! (3 terradons to harass the left flank) move: i move forward with almost everything, placing my "artilleries" to fire at the advancing slayers, screening as much as i can behind the summoed skinks. i collect 2 pts with the AB, so 12 conj pts… i conjure a Starpriest to buff the Carno in the 2nd round Basically, in this round i entered the battlefield 140+120+120+80 "free" pts. Mostly impressive. As you can see from the picture, the shooting is horrible. the left razors kill only 2 vulkite on the left objective (i wanted to weaken them, thinking to attack there with my Carno) the combined fire by 30 skinks, 3 razors and 3 sallies (all of them within the range of the astrolith bearer), inflicts 10 damages, killing 5 vulkite that was NOT pleasant i collect 2 obj pts, so 2-2
SECOND ROUND we roll for the turn… i roll a 4, and my opponent a 2. i have an immediate double turn! SERAPHON's turn Hero phase: Starpriest casts Starlight on the Carno and uses the serpent's staff. LoSaT on the Carno. 2. Try again. 2. So much for my buffed carno. mr Slann doesn't cast a single spell (13 conj pts) 1st Engine… d6 Mortal wounds 2nd Engine... d6 Mortal wounds! 3rd Engine… d6 mortal wounds!! (all the wounds were concentrated on the hearthguard berserker, killing 3 of them… it seems a poor result, but think on it; that unit is composed by 40 wounds with a save and a FNP 4+, which basically means you have to threaten on average 80 wounds to kill them all) Move: i place my terradons on the left, the rippers ready to charge the magmadroth, and reposition the shooting dinos another conj pt fm the AB: they are 14, i spend 12 for another couple of sallies, in range of the handlers and the A.B. shooting! i divide the shooting: a part goes against the 5 survived Vulkite (killing 4) and a part against the hearthguards. With the ones previously killed, the final result is 5 hearthguards killed. 15 still stands. I've barely scratched it's main force, with a double turn... these guys are tough. this army is tough. By far the toughest one in all AoS. Charge & combat: i charge the terradons against the vulkite on the upper left obj, placing them to minimize the pile-in (only 3 vulkite will be able to attack) the rippers charge the magmadroth, which got a 3+ save. I manage to inflict 12 wounds but that buffed beast got 14 wounds, so it's still alive, and slays my rippers (also tnx to the mortal wounds that returned to me, rolling a 4+ for each taken wound). still a very good result. I collect the 2 points granted by my obj. Seraphon 4 - Fyreslayers 2 FYRESLAYERS' turn the forge is "burned" to use the grand bonus. the "casting" of the magmic invocation fails. heroes buff the troops Multiple charge! i totally forgot that the hearthguards got a 2" range, so my sallies / razors are a valid target for the double routine of Attacks… but they're in range for the defensive stand and shoot by razors…. both the units shoot!!! it's 12d6 shots with rend -1... 4 hearthguards dead! the combat of such a depleted unit plus the almost dead magmadroth, gives an idea of their potential. 20 dead skinks 3 dead salamanders 2 dead razordons On the upper left, one terradon dies, and i kill a vulkite in return. 2 points for Fyreslayers, so: Seraphon 4 - Fyreslayers 4 THIRD ROUND My experience tells me that this is almost always a decisive round. a double turn by fyreslayers could create me some problem, but that double stand & shoot was very lucky for me. we roll for the turn… and i roll a 6! SERAPHON's turn Hero phase: Starlight upon the Carno. Despite the +2, i roll a double 1. LoSaT on Carno… 5, so it can also move!. i teleport it near the upper left obj (sorry, it's unclear in the pic). i forego all the spells with the Slann (tns to the 2 previously saved, it's a total of 15 conj pts) 1st Engine: d6 mortal wounds, and i kill the magmadroth 2nd Engine: summon! (20 skinks as further screen) 3rd Engine: d6 mortal wounds against the herthguards Move: sorry, i didn't take a pic of this important sector, but the terradons retreat from combat and fly near the upper left obj, then the carno will charge the 7 survived vulkite Where the main combat is still going, i roll 1 with the AB… with 16 pts, i use 12 to summon… another couple of sallies. Here's the detail of my double defensive line: the grand combined shooting by 4 sallies, 4 razors and 30 skinks, takes the hearthguards down to 5. I didn't take a pic, The Carnosaur (buffed by 1 command points, for 8 bite Attacks), isn't able to kill all the vulkite (1 stands, to say once again how much tough these guys are), but it doesn't matter: the obj now guarded by terradons is mine, and given that this is worth 3 pots, now the score is: Seraphon 9 - Fyreslayers 4. My opponent concedes the game MAJOR VICTORY FOR SERAPHON!
Brief considerations If this should have been a test for the triple Engine, it went great. granted, the match-up was on my side: Fyreslayers (unless they use particular builds or use allies), are vulnerable to 2 things: speed and summoning disposable screens, a thing that we can easily do, even more a list like this one. where i was using just 60 pts for 10 skinks upon an obj (and i could have moved them in case of needs), my opponent was forced to use a unit of vulkite (140 pts, i believe) as obj holder, and he couldn't move them for fear of my teleport. The fyreslayers, especially hearthguards, are very hard to kill, as clearly seen in this BatRep. THe fact is: you should focus on the heroes, but hearthguards got FNP 4+ if they have just a single hero nearby. when there's a list that keeps 4 heroes near the hearthguards, and one of them is a magmadroth, you already know that you should invest resources and full turns to take those heroes, and this would mean that your line will be hit by the full force of that unit. So, i was forced to chew the troops one piece at a time. That said, this list is a powerful summoning army. the first turn was a huge demonstration of this: i call 460 pts of new unit on the battlefield, is a thing that can shift the balance. (even with an investment of more than 1000 pts for the slann+AB+triple Engine). So, this is based on summoning+screening+lot of shooting+move. If you don't meet an army able to target your key units, this is a solid list.
That was a pretty awesome battle. Three EotG would definitely raise my eye brows, and they looked pretty terrifying!
As the resident Fyreslayer fan here, I’d like to make a couple of points here: Firstly, I think it was a bad move for the player to take a Runeson on Magmadroth rather than Runefather on Magmadroth - the latter has by far the best combat potential, and Runeson on Magmadroths are only really worth it in my opinion if you have two of them, so that they can buff each other with their command abilities. Also, I would have taken 10 ranged Hearthguard and 10 Hearthguard Berzerkers rather than 20 Berzerkers, as ranged Hearthguard can take Wounds for nearby heroes and can blitz enemy monsters with their buffed magmapikes that now do damage 2 against them in the shooting phase.
I think you have a good point about the ranged hearthguard. I love my dispossessed, i have some kharadron, but alas fyreslayers are the dwarfs that don't appeal to me, so i cannot really say. I "recall" it was a runeson (and it seems so judging by the model). But I'm not 100% sure. THere's a difference in points? this one was 240 I know my friend wasn't satisfied by the performance of the magma. he's thinking to convert those points into 10 more hearthguards.
It’s definitely a Runeson - I can see in the pictures it’s a Runeson. I don’t think that’s the best decision - Magmadroths are good and I would certainly recommend at least one in any army greater than 500 points, but like any AoS monster, they are only good if you can charge them in so they can attack first or can give the hero a relic or buff to allow him to strike first. If it had been a Runefather on Magmadroth and had been able to charge into your Razordons, it would have been able to take a good few out and would have prevented them from using their deadly spines on the slower-moving Infantry. It was only because of those Ripperdactyls that he wasn’t able to get in there and do that, although the volcanic blood seemed to work very well for him if it wiped them out in return. I certainly think it was partly the triple Engine of the Gods combo that won you the game there - I didn’t realise that those things could summon a unit every turn even without conjuration points. Also I would say that your opponent didn’t use some of his choices to the best effectiveness - certainly he should have used his foot Runesmiter to deepstrike a unit right next to your Engines of the Gods and Slann to force you to react to that. I’ve been playing around with the new points for a while and I’ve prepared what I believe to be an optimum 2K list: - Runefather on Magmadroth - General - Runemaster - Runesmiter - Battlesmith - Battlesmith - Runelord (allied from Dispossessed) - 10 Vulkite Berzerkers (pairs of handaxes) - 10 Vulkite Berzerkers (pairs of handaxes) - 10 Hearthguard Berzerkers (Broadaxes) - 10 Auric Hearthguard - Lords of the Lodge Battalion - Zharrgron Flamespitter - Molten Infernoth - Runic Fyrewall Comes to 1990 points in total. While I believe that, like your opponent intended with his list, the list above is more of an all-comers list than a bespoke list designed to defeat your army, I think it would have done better than the one your opponent used. The Vulkites run off to claim the objectives much like your opponent did with his, but each of the two units has a Battlesmith accompanying it who can buff their save to 4+ and, if the Battlesmith dies after they’ve reached the objective, the Vulkites can choose to stand and protect their fallen Battlesmith (and conveniently the objective as well) so that they can re-roll their wound rolls as well as their hit rolls (which comes from the paired axes) - a solid defence against any melee units that try to take the objectives from them (Rippers e.t.c.). Meanwhile the Runefather on Magmadroth and the Hearthguard Berzerkers go on the offensive and try to charge enemy units on objectives or other irritating units (in this case the Razordons) with a brutal round of attacks from the Magmadroth and two lots from the Hearthguard Berzerkers as the Runefather is part of the Battalion, and at the same time the Runesmiter and the Hearthguard deep strike right behind the enemy lines to force the opponent to use one or more of their units to react to this instead of attacking the Runefather and Hearthguard Berzerkers - in the case of this game, the ranged Hearthguard deepstriking right near your Engines means they could have taken one out as soon as they arrived as their weapons are now Damage 2 against monsters (I think they would just need 7 wounds going past armour to kill one), which would have hampered your summoning abilities. While all this is happening, the Runemaster sits at the forge and summons the Flame Spitter to guard objectives, the Infernoth to move around your lines Mortal wounding stuff and the Fyrewall in front of one of the Vulkite units on the objective to prevent your Razordons from shooting them, and the Runelord unbinds any spells used to buff your units or inhibit mine. Either the Runefather or Runemaster could also be given an artefact allowing them to dispel an endlessly spell every turn, meaning I’d have a chance to dispel your cogs every turn. In any case, congrats on the win, and I just think it’s nice to see the new Fyreslayers being given a game. They’ve become a bit more popular on TGA with the new update as well, so hopefully should be able to see a few more batreps from various players against them.
oh, definitely a possibility, but in the "total commitment" scenario, you cannot keep unit in reserve. For example, a shadowtrike couldn't set the rippers high in the sky. I will pass it to my friend. You know what? I'm not sure about the placing of the heroes, because i recall a Vulkite unit with a 4+ save. But i cannot tell if it was the central group of the other one.
I see a sort of trend in Seraphon armies; or better, in the building of Seraphon armies. The meta is evolving toward heavy and deadly cac: Khorne is fast and hits harder than us... and can summon Slaanesh is fast and hit harder than us (and for first)... and can summon FEC hits a lot harder than us (and can go first) Fyreslayers are tougher than us and can hit hard Gloomspite spam mortal wounds Skaven hit harder than us i can go on. (deepkin, daughters...) Then consider that (with the rules about striking first), we have less and less eligible targets for our classic hitters (rippers from shadowstrike, charging stegadons and similar). the evolution of the game is forcing us to play the things that can counter these kind of armies. Lots and lots of screening units, lots of saturation shooting, summoning, teleport... at least, we can use summon to pick the best unit at the moment for that task (for example, a troglodon to charge a reliable target... a farly trivial conjuring, available since turn 2) If things don't change, this is inevitable.
How did you collect 13? From the looks of the picture it doesn't seem like your Slann is close enough to manipulate the Cogs. Is your tactic to always keep the Slann within the 9" control range of the Cogs, then move, and then move back, or how do you go about that?
Reading your reports is really enjoyable. You definitely have a grasp on situational awareness and knowing what best unit to summon depending on that situation.
in the first pic of the third round (shooting by the free people, but the placement of my units is the same of my following hero phase), my Slann was still at 9" from the cogs by a very small margin. In the hero phase i set them to give another spell slot (it has to be noted that, to manipulate the cogs, the model doesn't have to be entirely within 9", so i tend to stay at the very limit of this range). The 2nd pic was taken after my move phase, when the Slann was already moved, but in the picture i missed to mark its move with an arrow. I wrote "i collect 13+3" near the 2nd picture, after the move, when the Slann was too far away… the real steps should have been: end of hero phase, i collect 13 conj pts end of move phase, the Astrolith gives me 3 additional conj points In the 4th round only the Starpriest could have used the Cogs Hope now it's clear enough.