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KoW Kings of War releasing beta Lizardmen list released August 16th

Discussion in 'Salamanders Discussion' started by Scalenex, Jul 10, 2015.

  1. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    You can find them here.

    EDIT: The original post said that a Kings of War Lizardmen army was probably in the works at Mantic games. I was just e-mailed by a Mantic rep that an "all scaly army" is in the works and the beta version is coming soon.

    Someone beat me to the reveal.

     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2015
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  2. Scolenex
    Razordon

    Scolenex Well-Known Member

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    Just a warning: it has twenty-seven pages, not four, so it may take a while to read...
     
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  3. Scolenex
    Razordon

    Scolenex Well-Known Member

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    :panda:I am pretty sure this was phrased partially to poke a stick in the eye of Age of Sigmar developers.:panda:

     
  4. Qupakoco
    Skink Chief

    Qupakoco Keeper of the Dice Staff Member

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    I like these rules. They aren't quite what we had in 8th but they are better (IMO) than the stuff we got for AoS. They could easily be built up into something that we would all enjoy.

    My only complaints are the magic system and the character system. If there were a little more work put into those areas it would be a great game. On par with WHFB.

    Anyone else had a chance to peruse them? Anxious to see what they do for lizards.
     
  5. pendrake
    Skink Priest

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    I backed the Kings of War v2 kickstarter. One of the perks of being a backer is you get to download a full-length, watermarked PDF of the complete v2 rules. (The hardcopy is at the printers / on its way.) I just downloaded it.

    It is 206 pages and 11.8 megabytes.

    Who has questions? I can look up answers.

    (edit: I will check back on this thread for accumulated questions in a few hours/next day.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  6. borkbork
    Ripperdactil

    borkbork Active Member

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    Yeah, just 1 for now....what is the difference between the full length and the free download?

    thx
     
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  7. Trociu
    Chameleon Skink

    Trociu Active Member

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    I hate all these "Lets start KoW!" whining but I'm more and more convinced to it after reading opinions and informations about balance in AoS. In weekend I will have occasion to play AoS with my fiances nephew - maybe he will like those rules (his 10 and we played WFB only few times). Maybe my next battle will be with friends in KoW style :)

    I heard that there are unofficial rules for Lizardmen in KoW. Someone tried them?
     
  8. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    There were unofficial rules for Kings of War version one. Not any yet for version two, but we are going to get something better... I contacted Mantic asking about their Lizardmen plans, and they replied back to me pretty quickly.


     
  9. pendrake
    Skink Priest

    pendrake Well-Known Member

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    @Qupakoco - I am just getting started.

    @borkbork - The full length book is 207 pages. The free downloads are fewer pages than that (the armies are distributed into separate PDFs). The full length book rules section goes from page 46 to 89. About 52 pages? The free download rules is only 27 pages. So, less detail or more condensed, I am not sure which. I need to double-check but there may be two more armies in the 206 page rules than are available as free downloads.

    @Trociu - I think I downloaded them. If you hunt the link might be in a post on this forum someplace. As somebody noted they were meant for version 1. I have no idea if there have been new stats added or renamed or anything that would make them incompatible with version 2.

    As @Scalenex mentions above there is a unit type within an army called "Forces of Nature" called Salamanders. These are scaly (but bipedal?) and can optionally shoot flame. There are two or three kinds of them. The next (facing) page in that army listing has an intriguing illustration:

    KOW-Kroxigor.jpg

    I have politely blanked the stats but left the abbreviations. Note that it is a shorter stat line than WH8. The illustration does not match the creature listed immediately below anyway. A "Beast of Nature" is a catch-all for Hippogriffs and other Chimeras. I think the sketch is a Salamander with a great weapon from the facing page.
     
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  10. Rikard
    Stegadon

    Rikard Well-Known Member

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    Tell them if they have some interesting concept art there's a guy who might be persuaded to do the odd sculpt. :p
     
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  11. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Might be more effective to make the offer yourself. They respond to e-mails pretty quickly, but I don't think "I know a guy online who sculpts" is not that persuasive. It's not like the rep answered "you're the Scalenex? From Lustria-Online. Wow!"

    An e-mail with photographs of your works would be pretty persuasive.
     
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  12. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    But if it was @Scolenex, then that would really turn some heads!
     
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  13. The Sauric Ace
    Salamander

    The Sauric Ace Well-Known Member

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    The Mantic Games might even fear red pandas, it's worth a shot :p
     
  14. Rikard
    Stegadon

    Rikard Well-Known Member

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    He didn't? That was a little rude. :eek:
     
  15. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    "Ratkin" are out. Hopefully we are next. When the Skaven are afoot, we should be right behind them ready to kill them.
     
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  16. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    All of a sudden we may be faced with many choices...
    • 8th edition
    • Kings of War
    • 9th Age
    • Age of Sigmar

    Decisions, decisions, decisions.
     
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  17. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    @GCPD beat me to this, but I included his post on the top for people who don't read every reply.

    I read the online rules and ordered the deluxe mainbook from Mantic. I haven't played an actual game yet. I have a small group of people willing to try it but we've all been pretty busy. I am probably going to play my Empire Army (aka Kingdoms of Man) a few times before I try out the Salamanders. I need some grounding in an official army before I can rate whether the beta army is good or not.

    I don't know enough from that stats alone to know whether we Salamanders will be lower, middle, or top tier compared to everyone else.

    I did read they are planning to release the official (non-beta) versions of most/all of their new armies including Salamanders late this year or early next year. At which point I am going to push my fellow moderators to create a "Salamander Forum" or several forums (tactics, rules, discussion, etc). A little early to set up KoW forums now though.
     
  18. Jack Trowell
    Cold One

    Jack Trowell Active Member

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    For those that don't follow Mantic forums, the Salamander list has been released for a public beta for a while now, in fact it's now in its last iteration, this week should be the last oine before the rules are sent to the printer, and only small changes will probably be implemted now unless some big problem is found. So if you want to have a say in the final list, now is the last chance.
     
  19. Jack Trowell
    Cold One

    Jack Trowell Active Member

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    To help with the transition, in Mantica (the official world of Kings of War) the Salamanders (Saurus like lizardmen) are elemental humanoirs linked to the Fire element, the same way that Naïads are linked to water or Sylph to air for exemple.

    The Salamanders are already available as one unit choise in the Core Nature army (where you have some access to units from all fours elements).

    The Salamander army expand them with several salamanders units and heroes, plus a second smaller race called Ghekkotah, our skinks equivalents.

    ----------------------
    Infantry
    ----------------------

    The default Salamander unit, currently called "Salamander Primes" in the Salamander list to differenciate from the other salamanders units is an unit of tough and strong lizardmen.

    By default they are as strong as orcs or humans with great weapons (all Salamanders have the Crushing Strength(1) rule) and as tough as humans in heavy armor.
    This unit can chose between the weapon and shield version (getting a good def 5+) and lose the shield for great weapons to upgrade their crushing strength to 2

    The salamanders primes also have the Pathfinder rule, letting them ignore difficult terrain, a great ability for forest and jungle fighting. Note that this is not a racial rule, other salamanders units lacks the training or use equipment unsuitable for difficult terrain (like spears or ceremonial armors) and don't get it.

    Individual salamanders models are bases on 25mm quare bases like the saurus, and official Mantic models have been financed by the kickstarter, we should get them later this year or at worst early 2016

    Concept art :
    http://manticblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Salamander.jpg
    http://manticblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Salamander-Hero_color.jpg

    Early work in progress 3D models (the first one has a flaming sword):
    http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/MG_Kings_of_War_Salamanders_1.jpg
    http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/MG_Kings_of_War_Salamanders_2.jpg
    http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/MG_Kings_of_War_Salamanders_3.jpg

    So this is for the base Salamander unit, now I will describe the others options in the army :

    Salamander Juves/Youngscales/Unblooded (name not final) : an unit of young salamander warriors that have yet to prove themselves. They have worse equipment or maybe softer scales and only get a defense value of 4+ (they still get the default Crushing strength(1) that all salamanders units have). Their profile is similar to human greatswords (heavy armor but no shield with CS(1) but on 25mm bases), so while they are "soft" for salmanders, they are still big and strong lizardmen. If you have some old plastics from 5th edition, thos smaller saurus will make perfect youngscales.

    Anciens : veteran unit (better Melee value), with unwavering morale (they will fight without wavering until they rout/die to the last), this is where you use your temple guard models. There is an option for great weapons as a free swap at the cost of defense if you want.

    Ceremonial guard : Saurus with spears, they lack the pathfinder rule, but get the advantages of spears (more attacks in regiment plus the Phalanx rule)

    Corsairs : Salamanders that have seen the world, they get pistols and the Vanguard rule (similar to Warhammer, a free move at the start of the game). Note that the pistols rules can also perfectly represent rules for heavy javlins if you want to keep your army with a more primitive level of tech.

    Ghekkotah Warriors : skinks warriors, their short spears are not long enough to get them the beenfit of the phalanx rule, they are a cheap and fragile unit of unskilled warriors, but they are nimble, have a better speed than the salamanders, and the poison that they use give them the vicious rule (reroll 1s to wound), a cheap redirector or flanker

    Ghekkotah Hunters : those comes only in small troops, but have a better morale that a troop of warriors, and get blowpipes per default, giving them a short range weapon with vicious that ignore the modifier for move and shot.
    They have an option for bows (if you happen to have the old skinks models with bow from 5th edition) as well as chameleon cloaks giving them the stealth rule (so perfect for your chameleon skinks)


    ----------------------
    Large infantry
    ----------------------

    Tyrants : Kroxigor

    Fire elementals : unit of big fire elementals, strong, mindless and ignore terrain (pathfinder)

    Ember spirtes : swarms of small fire elemental, not very strong of tough, but has a breath attack

    ----------------------
    Cavalry
    ----------------------

    Kaisenor Lancers : Cold ones Cavalry, somewhat fragile but decent speed and their strength is not only during the charge

    ----------------------
    Large cavalry
    ----------------------

    Ghekkotah Skyraiders : Ghekkotahs with blowpipes on flying mount

    Ancients on Rhinosaurs : monstruous version of the cold one cavalry, slightly slower but tougher and hits like a ton of brick

    ----------------------
    Monster
    ----------------------

    Greater Fire Elemental : one even biggger fire elemental, has a small greath attack, still mondeless and ignoring terrain

    Lekelidon : small monster that fire a ranged piercing attack at 18" range (Razordon or salamander pack)

    Fire drake : a big firebreathing dino, or if you prefer a small wingless dragon

    Ankylodon Battle Platform : very strong and tough big dino, the riders get to shot with blowpipes or an optional firebolt upgrade (more range, but if you move you get a -1 to shooting).

    Komodon Artillery : count as a war engine (so cannot march and is very vulnerable to melee), but get an indirect long range indirect attack (similar to a catapult, but with several smaller projectiles)

    ----------------------
    Hero
    ----------------------

    Clan lord : Salamander fighting hero, general like (inspiring rule) with decent fighting profile. Has an optional firebolt upgrade (18" range shooting attack). Can be mounted aon a rapotor (cold one)

    Clan lor don fire drake : the same mounted on a firebreathing monster.
    Perfect for a Saurus Old blood on carnosaur, and there exists a winged version option to get the fly rule if you want.

    Herald : banner bearer (note that you can have severals in your army), provinde the inspiring rule, but is not a a very good fighter (The banner make it hard to use a weapon). Option for raptor mount.

    Battle captain : fighter hero, but not a leader (no inspiring rule). Can be mounted on a Rhinosaur (large cavalry)

    MAge priest : technically it's supposed to be a Salamander priest on 25mm square base, but if you want to use a Slann nobody should prevent you from doing so. By default get the Fireball(10) spell with the elite rule (reroll 1s to hit, including with spells), and others spells in options. He is on part with the powerful elven wizards, so while not the most powerful wizards, they are not second eitheir. Option for a raptor mount

    Ghekkotah Clutch Warden : Ghekkotah hunter hero, with blowpipes, inspire the others Ghekkotahs units (but not the salamanders), and can have the chameleon cloak in option. Great war engine hunter, or to keep your Ghekkotah units inspired. while provinding some covering fire with a small footprint

    Ghekkotah Skylord : Ghekkotah hero on flying beast, also inspire other Ghekkotahs units
     
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  20. Jack Trowell
    Cold One

    Jack Trowell Active Member

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    Going from the other side, I will now list GW units and propose their equivalent for KoW.

    If you have a specific model that you like and are not sure how to use it, please just aks and I will try to propose a fitting role for the model.

    - Old blood on Carnosaur => Clan lord on Fire drake (wingless version)
    - Troglodon => Fire drake
    - Terraton Riders => Ghekkotah Skyraiders (or the hero version)
    - Ripperdactyl Riders => Ghekkotah Skyraiders, maybe upgraded with a magic artefact to differentiate from the Terraton if you want to field both models.
    - Stegadon => Ankylodon Battle Platform
    - Bastiladon with Ark of Sotek => Ankylodon Battle Platform (if you use both, take one with the blowpipes and the other with the firebolt)
    - Kroxigor => Tyrants unit
    - Slann mage priest => Mage priest, maybe with some additionnal artefact to make him more powerful or hard to kill
    - Temple Guard => Anciens
    - Skink warriors => Ghekkotah Warriors
    - Skinks with blowpipes => Ghekkotah Hunters
    - Saurus Cavalry => Kaisenor Lancers (or if converted on larger bases as Ancients on Rhinosaurs)
    - Saurus Warriors => Salamanders Prime, or if build without shield (or smaller older GW models) as Youngscales
    - Saurus Warriors with spear => Ceremonial guard
    - Razordon/Salamander Hunting pack => Lekelidon or maybe Komodon Artillery for the razordon
    - Chameleon skinks => Ghekkotah Hunters with chameleon cloak
    - Scar veteran => Battle-Captain
    - Scar veteran with battle standard => Herald
    - Skink priest => no direct equivalent (but if you want to use him as a mage priest it should be ok), or as an allied wizard from another list
    - Saurus Oldblood => Clan Lord
    - Saurus Oldblood on cold one => Clan Lord on raptor
    - Jungle swarm => no direct equivalent, but there are swarms that can be allied from another list. Or maybe as a Ember - Sprites swarm if you can justify the breath attack (maybe the breath attack are swarms of flying insects ?)
    - Oxyolt : Ghekkotah Clutch warden with chameleon cloak, plus maybe some artefact if you want to specialise himeven more.
     
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