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AoS Kroxigor, Are they usefull?

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Byte, Sep 18, 2019.

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  1. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    that's because movement and wary fighter are SUPER underrated. every one just sees that 5+/5+ and 6+ save and thinks they are useless. you know what's better than killing things? killing turns in a 5 turn game and THATS what skinks do best
     
  2. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Exactly :D
     
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  3. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure about skinks being the best battleline we have, I personally agree with @Killer Angel that saurus knights are our best battleline. In a firelance they can put out some serious hurt, and with a scar vet on cold and skink starpriest they get scary
     
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  4. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    that's because you think killing things matters :p
     
  5. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Wary fighters won me some game, and it was super satisfying when it kicks in.
    Alas, it's happening less and less, for a number of reasons, in order of importance:

    1 - thing that fights before the standard combat phase. They annihilate for free your wary skinks, negating their only advantage.
    2 - more hordes. you usually don't field skinks in hordes, so even with wary fighter, when you retreat from a mini-horde you will rerely control the obj you was sitting upon
    3 - after 5 years, people are aware of the trick. When they need to kill your skinks, they do it.
     
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  6. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    yeah, Knights is the perfect example of old warscroll.
    They do just 1 attack with their main weapon, and they trigger 1 MW on a nat 6 to wound.
    Compare it to new units, that delivers a greater number of attacks and deals 2 MWs on a 6+ to hit.

    the difference is massive, and you must be aware that you cannot count on knights for their combat prowess. They are useful for other reasons. The fact that they can somehow sustain a fight is a bonus.
    Skinks cannot fight since the loss of skink chief, and as said before, wary fighter is an AMAZING ability, but with the current increase of rules that let the opponent bypass it, it's becoming weaker,
     
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  7. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    There are ways to position Skinks that will require an opponent 2 turns to take the objective, even if they are large hordes.
     
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  8. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    I was going to say, I form a t, to block out the approaching unit, and a tail back to the objective so that I can control the area, zone out their movement, and still buy a full turn.

    fight first basically wrecks everything. there's no counterplay… and that hurts the game. just ask a Magic Player
     
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  9. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    You can also create rings that prevent an approaching unit without fly from being in range of the objective, ect.
     
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  10. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    Couldn’t the same be done with saurus knights, and have last longer in combat and deal more damage all for 10 more points?
     
  11. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    In my experience it works very rarely. If the opponent wants the obj and you're guarding with skinks, he will take it.
    A great value of skinks lies in wary fighters, but if the skinks are the primary target there will be no chance to save them.
    and if you manage to screen the obj even if you are wiped away (encircling it, or similar), thus preventing your opponent to move within reach... at that point is not a merit of the skinks' rule, but it can be done with any kind of screening unit. Even with Knights.

    skinks remains a very useful unit, and are perfectly able to steal an objective held by your opponent, but they have wide limitations.
     
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  12. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    It works because you can Warry Fighter and force them to engage twice for the objective. This robs them of the turn and puts you ahead in action economy. If you do this to every objective with Skinks it means your opponent will only be able to claim half (+1) of the objective they engage each turn.
     
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  13. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    It's still limited though, and incredibly dependent on how well you (and your opponent) can position. The better your opponent can position (or the worse you are) the worse your skinks get. Eventually you'l simply run out of space to surrender.
     
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  14. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    that is the point though. you only have to stall 1-2 turns. its like playing magic and a mill deck. I don't care about your life total, im removing options and our new life total is 53... -1 for every card you draw or I mill away. well skinks mil turns... and you only have 5 lol. so they charge you wary. that's already two turns you stopped them from doing what they wanted to. and if they figure it out, good on them, here's 22 points of skinks summoned a turn, so all your excess damage cant bleed over but I can cram them up to you and keep you in combat all day. and while your making Khorne the happiest god of chaos, im scoring objectives
     
  15. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    This!
     
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  16. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    but the point is also: to drown your opponent in cheap bodies is a tactic that works regardless of the abilities of those bodies.
    In this case the ability of skinks is: we are cheap and we can die in spades and be summoned again.
    The strong ability is the summon, not the skinks.
     
  17. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    It is both.

    Wary Fighter makes them much more useful than other objective spam units. Skinks preform better both holding/zoning and for capturing objectives. If I charge a unit of 5 Saurus Knights onto an enemy objective that has 6 Ogor gluttons on it I won't be able to score the point with them alone. If I charge 10 Skinks and then Wary Fighter into position on the point then I can steal it with no recourse.

    In my experience opponent's will need to spend far more matched play points taking objectives from your Skinks than you have to spend on bringing the Skinks. This is only amplified by the gains Wary Fighter brings to action economy.
     
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  18. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    both skinks and summoning are strong on their own. its them combined that makes them amazing. summoning in Saurus is not as effective. or anything else for that matter. so I have to disagree.
     
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  19. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    this.

    Skinks themselves are all sorts of terrible. And although wary-fighter is a fun ability & occasionally allows you to do something vaguely intelligent it's not truly what makes skinks "usefull".There's only 2 aspects of skinks that really matter. 1) They're quite fast so you can get them in position relativly easily, wary fighter helps here, but their base movement does most of the work here and 2) There's nothing else that can be summoned in the same quantities or the same speed.

    They could be replaced by anything else and you'd achieve the exact same, and probably be a better unit as it might actually be able to do something besides dying, provided of course you can spam the replacement at the same rate & can manage to get them into position when needed. But nothing else can be spammed as fast, so the skinks remain the undisputed most efficient bodies to throw at your opponent to waste time.
     
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  20. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    I'm not saying skinks are not useful. But I'm saying that wary fighter is less strong now than it was before.
    You make the example of charging Ogors. Try charging Fyreslayers of a FEC zombie dragon of anything slaanesh, and you'll have dead skinks before they can go away.
    The game is evolving, and wary fighter doesn't always work.
     

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