8th Ed. Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea?

[Wolfsknight81]

Hey all,

I have been thinking about how to expand my army, starting with a 1500 points force. It will probably include a slann and a scar veteran on a carnosaur for starters, but I am not sure yet of what else to take. Flipping through the specials and rare sections I decided I wanted to build an army that has a bit of variety in it. The core of my army will probably consist of one block of saurus warriors with a unit of Skink skirmishers, so taking a unit of Temple Guard to me felt a bit like taking yet another large infantry block... and I wanted to try something different (different for me, that is) this time, focusing on some nice big dinosaurs like the Stegadon and the Bastiladon and a unit of Ripperdactyls instead of spending such a big chuck of points on yet another big infantry block.

So, say I wanted to run a Slann, but not neccesarily a block of Temple Guards to put him in... Would that be a viable option? And if so, how would you run the Slann then? Would you let him hover along on his own or would your prefer to dump him in a unit of Saurus Warriors then?

 

[Scalenex]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Slann have been being run solo fairly often a lot in the old book. I don't see why it wouldn't work in the new book. The new book has a bit fewer options for defending your Slann with magic items and disciplines, but with the rules for Arcane Vassal, it's easier to keep your Slann's distance from the enemy while still casting effective spells than ever before.


In my opinion, at 1500 points you probably should have two decent sized blocks of infantry (at least200 points each). Neither of them have to be Temple Guard but you are making your work harder for yourself if you are taking only one block of infantry.

 

[Pofadder]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Imho nothing wrong with a little skink cohort bunker either. 10 - 20 with or without command its still cheap!
I have done it often with great success. I normally play it behind one of my blocks (1" away) and position it accordingly to deny any would be chargers trying to assasinate the slann.

The vassal rule gives you the the coverage and staying tight with your blocks keeps them in IP bubble.

And should you get charged then you have some static CR on your side.

 

[Wolfsknight81]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Thank you for your reply. Fielding the Slann solo does sound like an interesting choice to me... Though I understand what you mean about a second block of infantry being a good idea. In the spirit of wanting to try something none of my other armies do, how viable would it be to field a block of 24 skinks with three Kroxigors as that second infantry block? So far I don't own any models besides the carnosaur rider and a Skink priest, so all options are still open to me. It's all just a long-term plan on what to get and trying to make sure I don't get too random in buying new Models

 

[Beyonder]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

In 1500 games Ive been experimenting with putting him in a Saurus block and moving him out prior to combat. The list was quite monster heavy with both a bastiladon and an ancient steg. Worked fine for me.

 

[Lizardmatt]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Also remember if you pick up any spells from shadow, the slaan can swap places with another character.
A 40 point chief can really save your butt.
Miasma to nerf a non-critical unit (opponent is likely to let this go off), then use lore attribute of smoke and mirrors to swap the slaan with the skink chief.
The Slaan just nods knowingly, "Thanks for taking one for the team little buddy, but lets face it, if you we meant for greater things, you wouldn't have been spawned a skink."

 

[Wolfsknight81]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Thanks for the advice everyone! This was all very useful. Guess I'll just get to writing up an army list now. As soon as I've got something I'll post it in the army list section to hear your criticisms. Thanks again!

 

[mbh7271]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Imho nothing wrong with a little skink cohort bunker either. 10 - 20 with or without command its still cheap!
I have done it often with great success. I normally play it behind one of my blocks (1" away) and position it accordingly to deny any would be chargers trying to assasinate the slann.

The vassal rule gives you the the coverage and staying tight with your blocks keeps them in IP bubble.

And should you get charged then you have some static CR on your side.

does the slann sit on the side of that unit?

 

[Rhodium]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Imho nothing wrong with a little skink cohort bunker either. 10 - 20 with or without command its still cheap!
I have done it often with great success. I normally play it behind one of my blocks (1" away) and position it accordingly to deny any would be chargers trying to assasinate the slann.

The vassal rule gives you the the coverage and staying tight with your blocks keeps them in IP bubble.

And should you get charged then you have some static CR on your side.

does the slann sit on the side of that unit?

Yes slann is 50 mm and cohorts are 20 mm so the slann should sit on the side (quite common to see this from lizard players)

 

[Vukodlak]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Hi

I played with the new book twice so far,
and in the first game I ran the Slann solo,
actually the onlyextra defence I gave him was the small obsidian,
against magic.

In the second game I used a 22er temple guard.
One thing is that once the unit is engaged in combat your Slann is locked up,
but the other thing is that the temple guard is quite potent, they can kill enemies,
survive a blow or two and with stubborn and army banner virtually never run.

My conclusion from this is, to use either a larger block temple guard or continue to run the Slann solo.
I also used him in a Skink unit already, however this makes you vulnerable to squishy units, that wouldn't harm the Slann himself, but can easily wound Skinks, the combat result may then have you overrun

 

[Tecuani]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Problem is, while decent fighters, they aren't a very good bodyguard unit-t4 and a 4+ save in combat is OK against low S attacks, but against S5 or better can die very quickly. Worse, with cupped hands removed they have no protection from miscasts at all, rendering the unit impractical-soul of stone is decent at protecting a lone slann, but with even a small template or 'every model in base contact' doing crippling damage due to the slann's position at the heart of a temple guard unit, it's of little use here, making the slann too much of a threat to the unit to be viable.

 

[Caneghem]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Problem is, while decent fighters, they aren't a very good bodyguard unit-t4 and a 4+ save in combat is OK against low S attacks, but against S5 or better can die very quickly. Worse, with cupped hands removed they have no protection from miscasts at all, rendering the unit impractical-soul of stone is decent at protecting a lone slann, but with even a small template or 'every model in base contact' doing crippling damage due to the slann's position at the heart of a temple guard unit, it's of little use here, making the slann too much of a threat to the unit to be viable.

I think you won't see the Slann staying in the Temple Guard, especially if you think you will be trying to really toss a bunch of dice at something. Slann gives the TG ItP and Stubborn. ItP is a liability for the TG, because it means they can't flee. There are some things you won't want to take a charge from with your TG, so being able to flee is nice. Additionally, stubborn is largely redundant, since normally your TG infantry will only need stubborn against shock units, and if they face those they will probably be Steadfast anyhow. Against infantry who outnumber them, the TG are far less likely to lose combat by enough to be worried.

I see the Slann joining the Temple Guard as a sort of last-ditch move now that he is allowed to leave. Early game I could imagine he will usually join a unit of skink skirmishers to really minimize miscast damage.

 

[Dreadgrass]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Another downside to the slann being in the TG is they trade in S5 attacks(2 standard, 4 if you wanted a horde) for the models he displaces in the 2nd/3rd ranks.

I was keen for the "stubborn, cold blooded. LD10 with re-roll" block too, but I agree it's largely redundant.

Also note that if you have more than 1 unit of TG each can have a magic banner. Not sure how important that is as theres not a huge selection of great options for them with it but hey, it's an option.

Wondering if a few smaller "detatchment" style units could be worthwhile. We probably have faster units that can fill this role but having some semi-disposable units with a weight of S5, Primal fury attacks and a decent Toughness and save could be useful.

 

[Caneghem]

Re: Leaving out Temple Guards: a viable choice or a bad idea

Another downside to the slann being in the TG is they trade in S5 attacks(2 standard, 4 if you wanted a horde) for the models he displaces in the 2nd/3rd ranks.

I was keen for the "stubborn, cold blooded. LD10 with re-roll" block too, but I agree it's largely redundant.

Also note that if you have more than 1 unit of TG each can have a magic banner. Not sure how important that is as theres not a huge selection of great options for them with it but hey, it's an option.

Wondering if a few smaller "detatchment" style units could be worthwhile. We probably have faster units that can fill this role but having some semi-disposable units with a weight of S5, Primal fury attacks and a decent Toughness and save could be useful.

You could throw the +1 movement banner on that little detachment just for fun. They would make a decent flanker. I think I like that better than saurus cav for the same points, since TG are always strength 5.