8th Ed. Let s talk about Kroxigors

[tinnx]

Hey lizardmen fans... I register my self few secund ago... First sorry for my bad english... Second i am tracking this forum like 1 year from now... I did read discussion about kroxigor and its not bad but i see lot of potentially in kroxigors and want to talk little bit more about them...

I think that they are one of our secret gems... First i did some math in my head with 8kroxigors in unit... They are in unit formation three wide... They have 19attacks with ancient ws3 s7... You need to inflict more than 8 wounds to reduce they hitting power... What is a lot... Next they can beat almost everything... In my head i did compare them with saurus... Unit of 400pts saurus you get 18attacks s4 ws3 with 33wounds and FC and if you buy kroxigors for that much pts you get 18attacks s7 ws3 24wounds and they move 2" faster what is for me very important... Because now days in my community everbody plays DE, Bretonnia or WOC and saurus are just to slow and cant do much except wait to die... So my solution for them where kroxigors, ripperdactyl and Tetto eko... You give kroxigors vanguard and you are in first turn with krox and cowboy behind enemy line... This unit is our little death star you choice your own combats and they can run away form you because you are to fast for them and they cant charge you because you are in there flank... Secund you have this nice little birds to help you against cavalyr or cannons or shooting... And they dont need vanguard from tetto eko they have it all ready... So do you see what i am trying to tell you in first turn you are bihnd enemy line with very very dangerus unit and birds to take away thing that bother you... And all you need is solution for big infantry units and for them you have comet of casasdora, SALAMANDERS, stegadons bastilodon and lot of skinks to shoot them.

p.s. I play three games with this list and results where DE 15-5, Bretoinna 20-0 (he rely didnt have opportunity to charge me ) and WOC 12-8... All this players where in our last big tournament with 50 players in top 20 WOC and bretionna where in top 10...

What do you think guys about this tactic and sorry my bad english once again and if you have not figured out what I want to say... xD

 

[rantapanda]

What can they really beat then, aside their regular anti-cavalry or monster killer role then? Comparing them with Saurus isnt really fair due to the fact that sauruses suck.
Im not really convinced : P but im glad uve managed to make em work!

 

[Rettile]

I'm starting to prefer kroxigors over stegadons, but i prefer using them as "hammers", not as big and pricey units even if i have to admit i'd love to field a krox horde. I don't think comparing them to saurus warriors is right because we're talking about a special unit, not a core one, so better compare them to TG, stegadons or CoC IMO

 

[tinnx]

How i see thing... In my comunity now day everybody play with lot of monsters or with cavalry... The 7ed was infranty edition but now days everybody wants big and strong monsters... We potential can have this blocks of units:

saurus block: my opionon is that better is to take skinks lot of them...

temple guard block: this guys now they are very good and i like to play with them...

cold one riders block: i really dont like this guys they are to expensiv for wath they do i can see only the way lot of them with 4cowboy in first ranke to do damage

kroxigor: now they i am i love with them so i think they can work just fine...

This is all blocks that we can have and have heroes or lords in it... I personally love to have mobile army and with all this blocks i can see only possible with kroxigor and tg with banner... And how i see things at least 40% of one army will have some kind of monster, cavalry and chariot what is a lot... And with lot of shooting from skinks, salamanders, bastilodon and razodon you can easily reduce infranty number and other 40% of army will easily be eaten by kroxigors... And your foe cant do much because you paralyzed his army with skinks and terradons if you want be 100% sure that you and only you choose fights...

 

[laribold]

I'm a big fan of Krox as well.
I pretty much always run a unit of 6+champ.

They don't shine against high volumes S4 (or even S3 attacks) to be honest, but I have had them kill (and I mean outright kill!) 22/30 Skaven Slaves in one turn when backed up by a Troglodon's roar for 5+ Pred Fighter attacks.

I think they work best in a list that combines them with other infantry blocks though. In an army with a more standard Skink-based Core they become a big, juicy target that your opponent can get points off (T4, 4+ AS isn't much to write home about). But combined with a decent block of Saurus (who CAN take on those S3/S4 infantry or tarpit reasonably effectively) and a TG block, then your enemy has three decent-sized units to be deal with.

Sure, they don't always succeed (curse you WS3!) but by having them there I always feel like I've got the chance of busting something open. I mean literally no-one like S7 hits.


The other thing to be aware of, is the lack of musician can really hurt them. Position or move them poorly and you've got 300+ points doing nothing for 2 or 3 turns and that can be a real killer.

So they take some skill to use and (like most Lizardmen units) really benefit from some buffs, but they're fun and rewarding to use.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Kroxigor are one of those units that I simply love fluff-wise and model-wise. They are amongst my three favorite units/models (#1 Slann, #2 Kroxigor, #3 Razordons), so I'm always trying to find uses for them.

Before 8th edition, Kroxigor were absolutely amazing, because under those rules...
1. there was no steadfast
2. there was no step up rule
3. the charging unit got to strike first (even when armed with great weapons)

Under that system Kroxigor could charge in with their better than average movement, wipe out the front rank, break the unit and call it a day. Unfortunately the life of our Krox is a little bit tougher today. As I see it, they are plagued by the following disadvantages...

i. poor WS
ii. poor defense (only toughness 4 with a 4+ armour save)
iii. always strike last
iv. initiative 1 (purple sun)
v. no access to a standard or musician

To help counter some of these disadvantages we have a couple of strategies
1. Target Selection - if you can get them into monsters, their S7 attacks will really shine. If you can pit them against (most) monsters they are golden and will very likely tear their opponent to shreds while taking very little damage in return! Keep an eye out for this. It is a good idea to deploy Kroxigor last in order to try to increase the likelihood of this kind of match up.

2. Flanking - hitting the flank will greatly reduce the amount of incoming damage that they receive, and provide a little bit of static combat resolution that they normally do not bring to the table

3. Magic - anything that reduces the damage they take (-1 to hit, additional toughness) or increases their chances of hitting are the spells you want to utilize. The speed of light or flesh to stone are two particularly good spells for these guys.

4. Unit size - with poor defense and ASL, you have to ensure that you will have enough bodies left to sufficiently strike back after you take shooting and combat losses. It is safe to assume that you will lose couple of these guys before you get to unleash your counterattack. Always take losses into account when deciding how big you want to make your unit


I'm always looking forward to learning new strategies to make the most of our Kroxigors. Can't wait to hear the ideas that everyone can generate.

 

[laribold]

It's not something I've tried (or am even sure I would try given that it is a touch 'gamey') but I've seen OK use the tactic of a unit of 3 in conga style with a champion at the front.

Only the champ can take wounds (assuming all enemy strikes at the same Initiative step) and so the max number of wounds you can take is 3. If the champ is killed you still get 6 attacks back from the remaining 2 Krox.

Could be a nice way to assassinate a character esp BSB or Mage.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

It's not something I've tried (or am even sure I would try given that it is a touch 'gamey') but I've seen OK use the tactic of a unit of 3 in conga style with a champion at the front.

Only the champ can take wounds (assuming all enemy strikes at the same Initiative step) and so the max number of wounds you can take is 3. If the champ is killed you still get 6 attacks back from the remaining 2 Krox.

Could be a nice way to assassinate a character esp BSB or Mage.

That seems like a good little trick and an interesting use of a small unit of krox. I wouldn't base a strategy off of it, but it is definitely worth looking out for and taking advantage of should the opportunity present itself.

 

[Scalenex]

I wrote this tactica a while back.

I see 2x2 squares of Kroxigor being good flank Support for Saurus or Temple Guard. I see units of 6-8 being good for pulverizing monsters. I'm not sure what else they are good for. They should not fight infantry without a friendly infantry unit applying static CR.

With minimal buffs, they can take on enemy cavalry and monstrous cavalry. They also need buffs to fight enemy monstrous infantry because trolls will outlast them and ogres have standard bearers (and a cheaper cost, and possibly characters), but attacking enemy monstrous infantry with Kroxigors is not suicidal if you are hard pressed.

I haven't come up with any good out of the box things to do with them other than to carry "battering clubs" in Siege games.

 

[Mr Phat]

currently thinking of trying a Krox horde...as in horde.

6 wide
3 deep

Tetto
Old Blood with Crown of Command.


I dont think it works, but I need to try!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

@Scalenex: The tactica you wrote is brilliant. I enjoyed reading it and picked up a lot of insightful and useful information. I especially love your one sentence summary " The bigger the enemy model is, the better Kroxigor will do". That is right on the money.


@Phatmotha-phucka: I'd love to see that unit on the table. 900 points of Kroxigor goodness. Hopefully you don't meet up with a purple sun or pit of shades. With the right buff or two it would really put the hurt on just about anything in the game. Speed of light on that unit would be absolutely golden (maybe even a Troglodon roar for a huge number of premium strength 7 predatory fighter bonus attacks ). Of course many things can go wrong with such a large expensive unit and it is far from the most competitive unit to field... but I'd love to see it none the less!!!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

So what formation does everyone like fielding their Kroxigor in?

I'm thinking of fielding a unit of 8 Kroxigor in one of my lists and I'm contemplating on either...

• 4 - 4
• 3 - 3 - 2

Any thoughts, experiences or suggestions?

 

[Pinktaco]

I really like the idea of a 2x2 kroxigor unit. It's small enought to not gather much attention and can pack a punch against armour. It's "cheap" enough so that should you come up against someone who doesn't field a unit it'll be good against it won't hurt your overall army list.

Kroxigors are fast and can quickly keep up with most and be used as a flanking unit. Besides they have a decent Leadership and a decent armour rating.

I'll certainly try it out the next time. I've come to not like salamanders as much anyway

 

[laribold]

I really like the idea of a 2x2 kroxigor unit. It's small enought to not gather much attention and can pack a punch against armour. It's "cheap" enough so that should you come up against someone who doesn't field a unit it'll be good against it won't hurt your overall army list.

Kroxigors are fast and can quickly keep up with most and be used as a flanking unit. Besides they have a decent Leadership and a decent armour rating.

I'll certainly try it out the next time. I've come to not like salamanders as much anyway

I like the idea of these, but am wondering whether or not a better way of getting this is through a Skrox unit (17 Skinks, 2 Krox, Musician comes in at just less than 4 Krox).
It has more utility with the skinks shooting attacks, but only half the Krox S7 attacks, but does come from Core....

Now I'm thinking about maxing out on Krox for an army! 3x Skrox units as above in Core, 3 lots of 4-strong Krox cubes in Special.... Hmmm.... Interesting, very interesting...

 

[n810]

yes, you need to test out the Maximum Kroxigor list.

 

[Pinktaco]

I like the idea of these, but am wondering whether or not a better way of getting this is through a Skrox unit (17 Skinks, 2 Krox, Musician comes in at just less than 4 Krox).
It has more utility with the skinks shooting attacks, but only half the Krox S7 attacks, but does come from Core....

Now I'm thinking about maxing out on Krox for an army! 3x Skrox units as above in Core, 3 lots of 4-strong Krox cubes in Special.... Hmmm.... Interesting, very interesting...

Different goals for the two units. Skrox can serve as a way to remove rank bonus by flank charging. Their overall better use isn't that much bigger. They cannot march and shoot and with two kroxigors you a low amount of skinks to shoot unless you go wide. Obviously though it gives another opportunity to have another banner if that's what you're in for.

A small krox unit can either serve as a commando unit to take down monsters in one go or as hard hitting flankers. Personally I prefer that, but again - different goals. Flank disruption + extra flag might also be worth it, just remember that skinks die like flies so they may cause some unwanted combat res to your opponent ^^

 

[Skinquisitor]

Well, my thoughts: Poor ws, poor ini(doesnt matter their case), medicore T and armor, good movement and awesome strenght. With wyssains, they can shine, really. But whats the chance youll be able to cast on them when its really needed? NEVER ever rely on buffing a unit. When its critical, your opponent will deny it, and theyll die.
Kroxigors arent good against great number units, that is known, they are good against cav-mc-mi-monsters. Against monsters, in my experience, poison is the way, period. Against cav-mc-mi, I prefer cowboys and ancient stegs. Cowboys, especially oldbloods are insane, almost invulnerable killing machines, while the stegs can survive against those type, and if they manage a succesfull charge with sharpened horns, nothing remains.
So, all in all, in my opinion we have sooo much better options for their roles.
Have to admit, the newest models are one of my favourite lizardmen kits

Ps.: there is one good use for kroxigors, wich is ld7 for skins. When I want to have a flanking cohort on sides, I include 1 to a 10 man cohort. Theyll become much more reliable+3x ws3 s7 hit from flank is always good.

 

[n810]

I wonder if Paring Kroxigor and Swarms together would be a decent tactic..?
(with high strength taking away most or all armor save for poison)

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Have to admit, the newest models are one of my favourite lizardmen kits

Mine too! That's why I'm so desperate to try to make them work, even against my better judgement.

I wonder if Paring Kroxigor and Swarms together would be a decent tactic..?
(with high strength taking away most or all armor save for poison)

I personally wouldn't bother. They'll be wounding on 2's most of the time, so auto-wounding isn't that critical. I find poison is better for things that have a difficult time wounding (S3 or S4). It would give you a small bonus, but I'd rather put another Krox or two in the unit instead.

 

[Pinktaco]

Well, my thoughts: Poor ws, poor ini(doesnt matter their case), medicore T and armor, good movement and awesome strenght. With wyssains, they can shine, really. But whats the chance youll be able to cast on them when its really needed? NEVER ever rely on buffing a unit. When its critical, your opponent will deny it, and theyll die.
Kroxigors arent good against great number units, that is known, they are good against cav-mc-mi-monsters. Against monsters, in my experience, poison is the way, period. Against cav-mc-mi, I prefer cowboys and ancient stegs. Cowboys, especially oldbloods are insane, almost invulnerable killing machines, while the stegs can survive against those type, and if they manage a succesfull charge with sharpened horns, nothing remains.
So, all in all, in my opinion we have sooo much better options for their roles.
Have to admit, the newest models are one of my favourite lizardmen kits

Ps.: there is one good use for kroxigors, wich is ld7 for skins. When I want to have a flanking cohort on sides, I include 1 to a 10 man cohort. Theyll become much more reliable+3x ws3 s7 hit from flank is always good.

Stegs are awesome, but also worth 5 kroxigors. 5 Kroxigors = 15 S7 attacks and 15 wounds. Kroxigors can continue to deal damage in combat and do not require a random impact hit to roll well. Not to mention the whole cannon issue which is a greater problem for a steg than unit of kroxigors.

I'm not saying a stegadon isn't good, just that it's a bit more of a risk/reward unit. Obviously depending on your meta and whether you play with open or closed lists.

Oh and T3 is imo considered mediocre. T4 and 4+ armour is decent. Not that it really matter a whole lot ^^