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8th Ed. Let's have a bit of fun: Build your ULTIMATE Magic Lore!

Discussion in 'Other Armies Discussion' started by NIGHTBRINGER, Apr 4, 2022.

  1. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    The point of this thread is for each of us to create a complete magic lore (1 Lore Attribute + 1 Signature Spell + 6 Spells). Think of it as an opportunity for a bit of creativity and fun. If all goes well, we can use this little activity as a spring board to discuss the best spells, composition of magic lores and magic strategy.

    A few ground rules:
    • make your selections from a combination of any BRB Lores and/or Army Book Lores (including the Legion of Azgorh's Lore of Hashut), but excluding supplementary material like Storm of Magic, End Times or spells specifically/uniquely from Bound Items or Special Characters.
    • the your signature spell must be chosen from among signature spells, your spell #1 must be chosen from among all spell #1's, your spell #2 from among all spell #2's, and so on. (so for instance, you can't chose a #6 spell as your spell #3)
    • feel free to build a generalist lore (for multiple armies) or one for a specific army of your choosing, but do announce which you have chosen
    • only include spells from the undead lores (Lore of Vampires or Lore of Nehekhara) if you are choosing to build a lore specifically for a VC or TK army, and if you are building a lore specifically for VC or TK, don't include any spells/attribute from the Lore of Life
    • assume that Searing Doom or Gahanna's Golden Hounds work as normal without you having to take the Lore of Metal attribute (so you are free to choose either of these spells and any lore attribute of your choice)
    • have fun, discuss and share!

    To make it easier for everyone following along, include which lore each of your spells/attribute are from so people can look them up more quickly. Share your thoughts on the general strategy or idea behind your constructed lore!

    Curious to see what everyone comes up with! !!!!!.png
     
  2. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Ooooooooooooooooh....... Interesting.... Okay, thinking cap going on!
     
  3. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    You have me interested!

    Though can I create a Lore for an army that doesn't have any Wizards? (I want to create a Lore for a hypothetical evolution of Dwarfs that includes Wizards)
     
  4. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    We're on pretty theoretical ground already, so I don't see why not. Have at it! Let's see what you come up with.
     
  5. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Do I have an army for you! ;)

    !.gif


    Curious what you come up with for the Vanilla Dwarfs.
     
  6. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    You won't need to wait for long, here it is:

    The Lore of the Ancestors - Dwarf Magic Lore

    Lore Attribute: Grombrindal's Divine Ale (Lifebloom) - Raising a toast to the legendary White Dwarf, the Runesmith beckons him gift a noble Son of Grungni with some of his limitless supply of hearty ale.
    Healing your tanky or killy Dwarf Lord with an enchanted tankard of ale keeps him tanky or killy for longer, and gives him one for the road!


    Signature Spell: Smednir's Divine Rune of Encasement (Searing Doom) - Bellowing an oath of vengeance upon the enemies of the Dwarfs, the Runesmith prays the God of Forges to burn them with Forgefire from within their own armour.
    One of many Metal spells, I have always thought that the Dwarfs would be excellent at manipulating metal through magic. Of course I've used a different Lore Attribute to Metalshifting, but the end result will be the same - the enemies of the Dwarfs will still die.

    1. Grimnir's Divine Rune of Wrath (Shem's Burning Gaze) - The Runesmith incurs the volatile anger of Grimnir to blind and scorch the foes of the Karaz Ankor.
    Grimnir's anger made manifest would best be represented by this spell from the Lore of Light. Dangerous, fiery and to-the-point - just how the Slayer God would like it.

    2. Morgrim's Divine Rune of Augmentation (Enchanted Blades of Aiban) - Summoning the skill of the God of Engineers, the Runesmith reforges his comrades' weapons anew to better hit their mark.
    Adds a bit of oomph to the Dwarfs' combat prowess and helps punch through enemy armoured troops, which Dwarfs with HW&S struggle with, as well as giving missile units the Ballistic Skill of their Elven rivals.

    3. Grungni's Divine Rune of Granite (Glittering Robe) - As he casts a handful of stone dust to the ground and raises a Rune of Grungni to the air, the Runesmith and his fellows are melded into the very image of stone.
    3+ Save Hammerers, Miners and missile troops? Check. 2+ Save Dwarf Warriors, Longbeards and Irondrakes? Check. 1+ Save (and 5+ Parry) Ironbreakers? Checkarooney. Even Slayers will get a 5+ save to protect them from shooting. The Dawi are already renowned for their armour, and this spell makes them all the tougher. You disliked fighting Ironbreakers before? You'll definitely hate them now!

    4. Gazul's Divine Rune of Retribution (The Curse of Anraheir) - Hurling a vial of water blessed by the Lord of the Underearth toward the hated foe, the Runesmith beseeches wronged Spirits of the Underearth to accost their tormentors.
    The Curse of Anraheir would be an excellent way of circumnavigating the Dwarfs' natural disadvantage of slowness, and will also give gunline armies the chance to pour more fire into their enemies to minimise their numbers when they do reach combat. Or else if the enemy does decide to move, the spell will minimise their numbers automatically.

    5. Valaya's Divine Rune of Healing (Regrowth) - Clutching a rune of the Ancestor Goddess while beckoning for her favour in a whispered voice, the Runesmith bids her to heal broken Dawi bodies and restore faith in victory.
    You thought 1+ armour save Ironbreakers were bad enough? How about those Ironbreakers being resurrected after you killed them only a turn before?

    6.
    Thungni's Divine Rune of Gilding (Final Transmutation) - Brandishing the Divine Rune of his own patron god, the Runesmith delivers the greatest of Thungni's runic curses to bear, turning the foe into precious gold that the Dwarfs can use to remake all they have lost.
    You all know Dwarfs love their gold, and I'm surprised they didn't think of the idea of turning their hated Greenskin and Skaven enemies into more gold before. The Grudges will be well and truly satisfied when you can have Skarsnik turned into gold, melted down and shaped into a drinking goblet, a new axe, or even a royal chamber pot if you really hate him that much. In the game the spell is good too.
     
  7. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Some interesting selections. I'm surprised that no army book spells made it into your list.

    Your choices are very metal-centric (which works thematically with Dwarfs):
    • 4 metal spells
    • 1 life spell + life lore attribute
    • 1 light spell
    • 1 beasts spell
     
  8. Imrahil
    Slann

    Imrahil Thirtheenth Spawning

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    Interesting thread! I will stick this, just for reading purposes ;)

    Grrr, Imrahil
     
  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    It's more fun if you join in and it keeps the thread going. Just pick some spells! There is no right or wrong here.
     
  10. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    I just couldn't think of any that were particularly thematic for Dwarfs - as you could already tell, I was mainly aiming for spells that fitted thematically with the Dwarf Ancestor Gods, both in terms of lore and mechanics, as well as being able to work with the Dwarfs' existing strengths and weaknesses - hence it's mainly a defensive lore with buff spells to increase the Dwarfs' already formidable defensive and shooting capabilities to even stronger levels, as well as some more aggressive spells to compensating for their slowness and their perhaps reduced melee damage output compared to some other races.
     
  11. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    I think good picks overall mate. And big kudos for the fluff on each one!

    I totally agree that the best Magic Lore (outside of the VC with the resurrection points for their specific army) is the Lore of Life, mainly because there is very, very few ways to get back wounds during combat.

    It's already on my choices for the Magic Lore I'm cooking up.

    @NIGHTBRINGER does the Magic Lore have to be assigned to a specific army?
     
  12. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Nope. Feel free to build a general lore designed to be used by multiple armies (that's what I'll be doing). It's completely your choice; as per the original post...





    I've already got my spell #1, #3 and #4 locked in!
     
  13. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    The Lore of the NIGHTBRINGER (generalist build)

    Lore Attribute ➨ Lifebloom (Lore of Life)
    Being able to heal up expensive characters and monsters for "free" is simply too good to pass up.

    Signature Spell ➨ Soul Quench (The Lore of High Magic)
    While this isn't my favourite signature spell, I choose it to help counterbalance my spell list in two ways (for the record, this was the last spell I finalized in my list). Firstly, my constructed lore already contained enough augments/hexes, so I wanted something that could work well in the early game and take out chaff. Second, I wanted something with a relatively low casting cost, and 8+ to cast fits the bill. This helps balance my list in terms of high and low casting costed spells. This was the reason why I chose Soul Quench over the Lore of Dark Magic's Doombolt.
    Other candidates I had considered: Wyssan's Wildform (Lore of Beasts), Doombolt (Lore of Dark Magic), Spirit Leech (Lore of Death), Fireball (Lore of Fire)

    Spell #1 ➨ Acquiescence (The Lore of Slaanesh)
    This spell is an absolute steal at only 6+ to cast. Hexing a unit with ASL and random movement (d6) can be game breaking. The random movement portion of the hex limits normal movement, charges, pursuit and flee moves. It can also force warmachine crew or other "move or shoot" units to move and prevent them from shooting. ASL can knock out ASF re-rolls to Hit. Two great hexes in one and super easy to cast.

    Spell #2 ➨ Speed of Light (Lore of Light)
    There were two other spells I heavily considered for this slot, and to be honest, either of the other two could have fit in nicely. This spell had a slightly lower casting value, which helped it edge out. A nice spell that can work offensively (hitting easier, hitting first) or defensively (being more difficult to hit, removing enemy ASF re-rolls to hit). I've always loved this spell, easy to cast and versatile.
    Other candidates I had considered: Word of Pain (Lore of Dark Magic), Enchanted Blades of Aiban (Lore of Metal)

    Spell #3 ➨ Curse of the Leper (Lore of Nurgle)
    This spell is ultra versatile, being able to either augment your troops with +d3 toughness OR hex your opponent with -d3 toughness. It's simply a far superior version of the Lore of Shadow's Withering (which is less versatile and costs more to cast).

    Spell #4 ➨ Ash Storm (Lore of Hashut)
    In my mind this is the single best hex in the entire game of Warhammer. It was the first spell I added to my list and nothing even came close to contest slot four in my lore. Simply put, the spell does basically everything. It hinders the afflicted unit's movement, shooting, magic and close combat phases... and makes them flammable to boot. How do you beat that?

    Spell #5 ➨ Trollguts (Lore of the Great Maw)
    This was a highly contested slot in my magic lore. However, casting a mighty 4+ regeneration save on your units is simply too good to pass up. For this generalist list, this spell barely edged out my runner-up spell, Regrowth (Lore of Life). The main reason was that I already had the Lifebloom lore attribute to rely on and Trollguts can directly win combats for you. If I was building a Chaos Dwarf specific list however, I'd go with Regrowth to heal Destroyers (or Iron Daemons). Overall though, I figured that the regeneration save would be a bit more versatile in a general list.
    Other candidates I had considered: Regrowth (Lore of Life), Arcane Unforging (Lore of High Magic)

    Spell #6 ➨ The Dwellers Below (Lore of Life)
    With my spell lore focused around augments/hexes, I felt it needed a little bit of punch. Why not take a nuke spell? Despite the more limited range of the spell and higher casting cost (as compared to something like Final Transmutation), its character killing capabilities were the key consideration that finally made me settle on it. Additionally, it's psychological presence would help other spells in the lore to get through as an opponent would need to save dice for this one.
    Other candidates I had considered: Final Transmutation (Lore of Metal), The Purple Sun of Xereus (Lore of Death), Cacophonic Choir (Lore of Slaanesh)


    There you have it. A list comprised of some of my very favourite spells. No matter which spells you roll for the spell lore will dominate. I may create an army specific lore later or perhaps one built around a very specific strategy/synergy. We'll see, but for now, I present the The Lore of the NIGHTBRINGER for your consideration...
    • Anything stand out or surprise you?
    • Do you see any weak links?
    • Would you make any substitutions?
    • Would you field this lore?
    • What armies would it work well for or not as well for?
     
  14. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Great stuff and on first read its awesome.

    I'll do a bit more of a study and analysis once I've finished my own Lore.

    The Lore of the Old Ones...
     
  15. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    I assume I'm including the last issued Skaven and Beastmen codexes in this?

    My lore is turning into a full Magic deep dive...
     
  16. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Yup, feel free to include spells from either of those lores if you like!

    Should be a fun read! Can't wait.
     
  17. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    So, who would field my lore? Strengths/weaknesses?


    Let's get some discussion going!
     
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  18. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Certainly.

    But once I've finished my dive ;)
     
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  19. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    But that's gonna be later tonight. I'm right at the end of it. Hopefully it's an interesting read!
     
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  20. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Here we go!

    Okay, so first off this was a fantastic little exercise. Nice one @NIGHTBRINGER !

    Being a bit of a nerd (yes... I know... it’s a bit hard to believe ;) ) I did the leg work of listing out for myself in one spot EVERY Lore attribute and EVERY 8th edition (or used in 8th Edition) spell so I could really compare apples to apples for each spell number (signature through to Sixth level spells).

    My aim was to create the ultimate strategic Lore. The one that would be the best all-rounder Lore that could be utilized by most armies. That would give a balance of some hitting power with spells that deliver major strategic advantages.

    Having rejected other names, I went with the Lore of Renown... Bit derivative but there you go :D

    SPELL LORES:

    First off, I took a look through the Lore attributes. I agree with both Nightbringer and Lord Agrogax in that the Lore of Life attribute is clearly superior to any other lore. All you need to do is cast the spell, with no further dice rolls, and your wizard or another character or monster or whoever can regain a wound lost. Very powerful considering there’s only one magic item (Potion of Healing) that does this and otherwise it’s limited to Lore of Vampires (I actually didn’t really notice their Lore Attribute does the same thing for the VC) and specific special characters, their magic items and some monsters (Bale Taurus for instance if you cast a Lore of Fire spell on it).

    The Lore of Metal is fantastic situationally, but it’s not versatile enough for a truly strategic Lore as with a high enough strength you can also cancel out armour saves so you can still achieve the same effect of no armour save and high-odds dice roll to wound. Plus the models still gets their ward save if they have one obviously.

    I looked over the rest of the Lores and while some have some good results (like HE Lore of High Magic with +1 ward save for wizard and unit and WE Lore of High Magic protective counters that can prevent wounds to wizard or unit), none come close to being able to auto-heal your wizard or another character in 12”. This is deadly in any army as everyone will have a Lord/Hero or monster or similar high-wound-count model that they want to keep alive and generally these have a high wound count. They are also usually those which your opponent is desperately trying to hack down as fast as possible, but with their various protections they will usually still be alive at the end of the turn. Cast a couple of Life spells and, voilà, fully healed.

    LORE REFERENCE:

    Lore of Life – Successfully cast spells can heal 1 wound on the Wizard or another model within 12 inches

    Lore of Fire – +D3 for casting a spell on a unit that’s already had one from Lore of Fire
    Lore of Beasts – Gives -1 casting cost for spells cast on specific wild unit types
    Lore of Metal – No armour save and use the Armour Save as the “To Wound” roll.
    Lore of Light – Daemons and Undead take D6 extra hits
    Lore of Heavens – Flying models also suffer D6 S4 hits
    Lore of Shadow – Successfully cast spells can switch the wizard with another friendly character within 18 inches
    Lore of Death – For each wound caused by spells, roll a D6 and on a 5+ you get another power dice.
    Lore of the Wild – None
    Lore of Hashut – When cast on Flammable targets, add D3 to casting total
    Lore of Tzeentch (DoC) - Any wounds, choose horror or screamer unit, roll D6 for each wound: horrors 4+ adds a model, screamers 6+ adds a model
    Lore of Nurgle (DoC) - Any wounds, choose plaguebearer or Nurglings unit, roll D6 for each wound: plaguebearers 5+ adds a model, Nurglings 6+ adds a model
    Lore of Slaneesh (DoC) - Any wounds, choose daemonettes or fiends unit, roll D6 for each wound: daemonettes 5+ adds a model, fiends 6+ adds a model
    Lore of Dark Magic (DE) - any hex, direct damage or magic missile successfully cast with a double of any kind also causes 2D6 S1 armour piercing hits on unit. A triple of any kind causes 3D6 hits of same.
    Lore of High Magic (HE) - successful spell gives unit and caster +1 ward save
    Lore of High Magic (LM) - Successful spell can be replaced by spell chosen from any spell lore he normally uses. Normal procedure of rolling, can exchange for signature, etc.
    Lore of the Great Maw - successful spell recovers one wound to caster on 2+, on a 1 you suffer S6 hit
    Spells of the Big Waaagh - +1 to strength if more friendly units then fleeing friendly units
    Spells of the Little Waagh - successful spell roll dice on 5+ take one dispel and add to power pool
    Skaven Spells of Ruin - None
    Skaven Spells of Plague - None
    Lore of Nehekhara - successful spell on unit resurrects D3+1 Nehekharan undead. Constructs can only recover one wound per phase
    Lore of Vampires - Successful spell heals 1 wound on model in 12”
    Lore of Tzeentch (WoC) - successful spell then any dice rolls of 6 are added as power dice for that wizard only
    Lore of Nurgle (WoC) - successful spell roll dice, on 6 add plus 1 to T and W
    Lore of Slaneesh (WoC) - successful spell, for any wounds roll dice, each 6 adds 1 WS, I and A until next magic phase
    Lore of High Magic (WE) - each spell successfully cast add protection counter, if wizard or model in wizards unit suffers wound ignore and remove 1 counter
    Lore of Dark Magic (WE) - successful spell place counter next to enemy unit, next spell adds D3 hits for each counter
     
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