8th Ed. Little things I think we need in our 8th army book

Razordons need a couple fixes... firstly they need either strength 5 or armor piercing. Also the misfire rules need to be modified somewhat. Maybe for each misfire you lose only 1 skink instead of D3. Also I think that each "shot" should be treated separately. So rolling a misfire on 1 dice wouldn't mean you can't roll a second dice on stand and shoot.

The sad truth is, right now for 75 points you get a single beast that can potentially misfire, and on average puts out 5 strength 4 shots. For 70 points you get 20 strength 3 poison blowpipes! Strength 4 doesn't do all that much to help against armor saves anyway.

 

Lore of the Old Ones
Available only to 2nd gen Slann (lvl 6 wizard)

Lore attribute: Inescapable Destiny - Spells in the Lore of the Old Ones cannot be miscast, but only a triple - 6 result will cast with irresistible force.

Signature spell - Quake (hex) - 9+ Pick a location anywhere on the board. Then scatter this point D6 inches, with a result of "hit" meaning no movement of the target location. All units within 2d6 inches of this point are unable to march or shoot until the start of the caster's next turn. Upgrade to 3d6 inches for 12+ casting cost.

1 - Shifting of the Winds (hex) - 10+ targets a single enemy unit in hand-to-hand combat anywhere on the board. Until the caster's next magic phase, that enemy unit has a penalty of -1 to hit and -2 to combat resolution as the strong winds force that unit backward. Cast at a value of 14+, the following additional effect is applied. Move the enemy unit D6 inches directly away from a friendly lizardmen unit in combat, then move any lizardmen units into position fighting that same target. Should enemy models come into contact with dangerous terrain during this backward move, they take dangerous terrain tests as though fleeing (friendly units do not have to test). Should an enemy unit be forced to contact an impassable feature, board edge, or another unit, it stops 1 inch away and both units (the moving one and the one it moved into) take D6 srength 4 hits, distributed as per shooting. If the unit is forced off a cliff or into a lake, then any models forced to contact such features are removed, unless they posess the appropriate strider abilities.

2 - Inundate - 12+ Pick any point on the table. If successfully cast the Lizardmen player may place a 6 inch marsh feature on the board, as a sudden massive downpour creates a marshland. This can be created anywhere, even under enemy units. If cast on a building, it is destroyed on a 4+ as a marsh makes a poor foundation. If cast at a value of 20+, a 6 inch lake is created instead. The lake cannot be created within 1" of an enemy unit. A lake will always sink a building, though it cannot target an occupied building. A marsh or lake created underneath a forest will replace the forest. The casting player must possess an appropriate terrain piece in order to cast the spell.

3 - Volcano (direct damage) - 13+ Pick any point on the table. Place the small round template and any unit touched takes D6 strength 4 flaming hits. Additionally, any unit that takes a wound from this spell loses regeneration until the caster's next magic phase. 16+ for large template and strength 5.

4 - Constellation of Destiny (augment) - 16+ All friendly Lizardmen units. If successfully cast the lizardmen army finds renewed zeal for the righteousness of the old ones and may modify ALL rolls by 1. Even a naturally rolled 1 may be changed to a 2. You literally turn the dice over. This applies to ALL dice rolled. Can apply to impact hits, casting rolls, initiative tests, and can even cause poison/killing blow by changing a 5 to a 6. Cannot modify artillery or scatter dice, but any D6 can be modified. Lasts until the start of the next Lizardmen magic phase. If cast on a 20+, it becomes a remains in play spell.

5 - Pillar of Lightning (direct damage) - 18+ Pick a single unengaged enemy unit anywhere on the table. Center the small round template on the unit. All models touched are wounded as per the lore of metal attribute, and take D6 wounds if wounded. LOS is allowed. 21+ for large template.

6 - Liquefaction - 20+ Pick any location on the table, even near friendly units or engaged enemies. Scatter this point D6 inches. All units within 2d6 inches take 2d6 hits. For each hit, pass an initiative test or take a wound with no saves allowed as the earth turns insubstantial beneath the feet of the enemy. 25+ 3d6 inches, 3d6 hits. Any buildings in area of effect are destroyed.

So what do you think? A 2nd gen Slann would be necessarily very expensive, probably in the area of 500 points base, with no upgrades. Perhaps a bit on the powerful side, but the new LM book would possibly downtweak slann in other ways, like removing rumination freebie dice. Also hard to IF these since you need 3 6's. (Until you get off Constellation.)

 

Hmm. As long as we are not going back to Herohammer if you know what I mean. I 't have yet any specific improvements, but what I would like to see in Warhammer Magic is more combination between spells. I mean by using spells in different order you would get different result. I also enjoy augment and other spells which change course game without directly causing eradication of enemy forces. Those redirecting and alternating movement would give magic nice tactical element. I Liked the Terrain spell you suggested. I think Lizzies need also augment spells which may help Lizzies in major failures like initiative and so on. I also like the names of Lore of Light which contains spells what warp timespace and like that. Something more abstract than just throwing fireball in to face. I think Slann in magic should have access to chess like element in combining and trough that altering course of battle. I that would make magic much more interesting instead of just being alternate to warmachines. Alright I admit my wishes are probably atm too radical changes, but I think we should go towards more interesting elements of gaming.

I know making rules more complicated is not for what GW is aiming to cause they what it to be more accessible to newer players, but I think that is a shame since It'll take away much of interest around gaming. Of course this kind of element would be welcome in any area of game including magic, but as Lizzie player my first wishes are for magic since it is center element of Lizardmen.

Well here are some of my taught. Please give me some comments what you think of this, and share your own taught?

 

I was just thinking if razordons did D3 wounds and fixed the Stupid FAQ on them,
they might just be woth it.

 

sorry but i hate 6 spell. anything with initiative test is the worst that could happen to lizzies and as i read (if it was correct) that spell efect liz too so it could e a total fail.
I would like to get the spell of toads on fire raining from the scie as in picture in AB

 

Ok... Yea I second that,
trader Liquidfaction with some sort
of deadly flaming toad rain.

 

Sounds like a vortex spell! I'll get right on that one.

Here's what I'm thinking.. New flaming toad vortex cloud of doom takes number 6 spot. Replace volcano with an awesome hex of some sort?

 

How about spell which name could be Dimensional Aberration, or Dimensional Warp or something, which would cause lots of funny effects and Would be Vortex Spell. Probably laying random placed markers on battle field and if it happens to hit unit it causes something and if it does not it stays there and works as terrain of some type with special effects if some unit steps on it(probably changing size every turn so you have to rely on propablity and luck when moving close to one). Then we would have another spell which would help to control randomization a little bit and improve some other spell which some how redirect or change enemy movement. And Lore would also contain other such spells which are effective if you manage to cast 2 or 3 spell combo. Every spell could have some effect with probably two other spells and then whit different combination you could solve different problems without making game Herohammer and directly annihilating enemy units in one turn.

What do you think? Is this reasonable or am I just a dreamer?

 

Some interesting ideas Cyber Mummy, but I don't envision Slann magic to be unpredictable at all. Lizardmen are about as purely Order driven as it gets. The dimensional stuff seems a bit chaotic. Not saying it wouldn't work but I'm coming at it from the angle that the Slann has magic that can shape the world as we know it.

Anyway, here's take 2 on the old one magic. Some names have changed, some spells are better, some removed altogether!

Lore attribute: Inescapable Destiny - Spells in the Lore of the Old Ones cannot be miscast, but only a triple - 6 result will cast with irresistible force.

Signature spell – Siphon Energy (hex) - 11+ Targets a single enemy unit anywhere on the table currently under the effects of one or more augment spells. The target unit immediately loses the effects of any augment spells it has in play (remains in play OR spells lasting for a fixed period of time). For each augment stripped in this way, roll a D6. On a 4+, the lizardmen player adds another dice to his casting pool. 14+ D3 units are affected.

1 - Hammerwind (hex) - 9+ targets a single enemy unit in hand-to-hand combat anywhere on the board. Until the caster's next magic phase, that enemy unit has a penalty of -1 to hit and -2 to combat resolution as the strong winds force that unit backward D6 inches. Move the enemy unit D6 inches directly away from a friendly lizardmen unit in combat, then move any lizardmen units into position fighting that same target. Should enemy models come into contact with dangerous terrain during this backward move, they take dangerous terrain tests as though fleeing (friendly units do not have to test). Should an enemy unit be forced to contact an impassable feature, board edge, or another unit, it stops 1 inch away and both units (the moving one and the one it moved into) take D6 srength 4 hits, distributed as per shooting. If the unit is forced off a cliff or into a lake, then any models forced to contact such features are removed, unless they posess the appropriate strider abilities. Cast at a value of 13+, enemy is moved D6+3 inches.

2 – Sudden Inundation - 10+ Pick any point on the table. If successfully cast the lizardmen player may place a 6 inch marsh feature on the board, as a sudden massive downpour creates a marshland. This can be created anywhere, even under enemy units. If cast on a building, the building is destroyed on a 4+ as a marsh makes a poor foundation. If the spell is cast at a value of 16+, a 6 inch lake is created instead. The lake cannot be created within 1" of an enemy unit. A lake will always sink a building, though it cannot target an occupied building. A marsh or lake created underneath a forest will replace the forest. The casting player must possess an appropriate terrain piece in order to cast the spell.

3 – Languorous Stupor (hex) - 14+ Any enemy unit on the table. Until the start of the next Lizardmen magic phase, the target unit’s initiative, weapon skill, and attacks are reduced by D3 (to a minimum of 1). Additionally the unit may not benefit from the special rules always strikes first, frenzy, or hatred. The unit must test for stupidity during its next turn. 18+ Same as above but reduce stats by D6.

4 - The Great Plan (augment) - 16+ All friendly Lizardmen units. If successfully cast the lizardmen army finds renewed zeal for the righteousness of the old ones and may modify all hit, wound, and armor save rolls by 1. This can even cause poison/killing blow by changing a 5 to a 6. The effect lasts until the start of the next Lizardmen magic phase.

5 - Pillar of Lightning (direct damage) - 18+ Pick a single unengaged enemy unit anywhere on the table. Center the small round template on the unit. All models touched take a hit at strength 8 minus their armor save (strength 1 for no armor). So a unit with an armor save of 3+ would take strength 5 hits. No armor saves allowed against this attack, wounds multiply to D3 wounds. LOS is allowed. 24+ for large template.

6 – The Final Sign - 20+ Place the small template in any location on the table, except on top of friendly units or enemy units in combat. This is where the flaming storm cloud of frogs forms. The controlling player nominates a direction, then rolls an artillery dice. The cloud travels 2 x that number of inches in the chosen direction, and all units touched are affected. In the event of a misfire, the template does not move. Each unit touched takes 2d6 strength 4 flaming hits. Additionally, any unit suffering a casualty must take a panic test at a -1 penalty. Even the thickest of foes realizes that flaming toads falling from the sky is a very bad thing! 26+ 3 x artillery inches, large template.

 

Reducing attacks from a profile Might be a tad overpowered,
considering that you are going to roll at least a 1 making a typical large block of core troops do Zero attacks..?

 

Add the stipulation that it's to a minimum of 1.

 

Yeah maybe you are right about that. I did not really mean so much disorder causing abilities, but most importantly I meant that some more abstract than just fireball in to face, and main idea was combined spells so magic phase would be more interesting. Actually to be honest you were more than right about not being unpredictable, now begin to think of it since spell combos would have even more tactical element if they are not completely random.

But I think Slann know many things about word others have not even dreamed of, and that's why some of their abilities could have some bizarre affects in ordinary persons point of view. You understand what I mean? Of course Slann mostly change world as we know it to keep balance in world. Or at least that is reasonable explanation in my point of view. By the way. I think Lizzies need mostly buffing and hexes. By the way. What do you think if that lore would have spells that reduce other spells casting value, and trough that allow casting spell combos? I know this might sound that I m boasting about those combinable but I think all those combos would add even 7 spell lore to really have opportunity casting like 210 or something different combinations. And in this case order of spells would have certain role.

I think there is huge amount of possibilities how we could improve interest, fairness and other things of Magic in game. I mean it could be cool if warhammer games would contain like many games over another, and they all are combined as one. Little more complicated rules would make games more interesting and skill would mean more.

 

2 – Sudden Inundation - 10+ Pick any point on the table. If successfully cast the lizardmen player may place a 6 inch marsh feature on the board, as a sudden massive downpour creates a marshland. This can be created anywhere, even under enemy units. If cast on a building, the building is destroyed on a 4+ as a marsh makes a poor foundation. If the spell is cast at a value of 16+, a 6 inch lake is created instead. The lake cannot be created within 1" of an enemy unit. A lake will always sink a building, though it cannot target an occupied building. A marsh or lake created underneath a forest will replace the forest. The casting player must possess an appropriate terrain piece in order to cast the spell.

For the extra 6 to cast there is no difference in the ability

ignore that, I just re-read it and it's a lake not a marsh now, fail by me

 

@Lingbei: I did the same thing!

Personally I would love to see a Bigger Terradon as a Lord or Hero Skink Mount. Perhaps even with a small howdah?

I would also love to sacred spawnings coming back and focus on other Old Ones, It seems like Sotek is favoured to me... I would of thought Chotec would of been, considering the entire race is cold-blooded and relies on the sun to move at any speed!

 

Heh, good call, I was thinking minimum of 1 but just forgot to type it.

 

I think I understand where you're coming from, and I think the Lore of the Old Ones is for the oldest Slann only. They're mostly the "big picture" spells and all have a fairly high casting cost, and they tend to reflect the types of magics that could reshape the land. They are in many respects "uber spells", but you would have a smaller army since the Slann would cost so much.

Now I have been toying around with a Lore in a totally different direction. It would be one available to all Slann, not just the oldsters. It would revolve around telekinetics and telepathy type attacks, and so you'd have all manner of fun with that. Moving units, messing with the enemy's minds, etc. Maybe a whole unit teleportation spell would be the #6? Primary focus would not be damage, but the Slann being clever and controlling the battlefield. I'm open to ideas on that lore, it would be more in line with BRB power level and available to all Slann regardless of generation.

EDIT: Idea for an augment spell... friendly unit gets to use their CC weapons as thrown weapons? TG stand and shoot with.. str 5 halberds? The WS would count as ballistic skill!

 

How about a Hex that reduces an enemy unit to Initiative 1 ?
ohhh and makes them subject to Stupidity.

 

Hmm Sounds good, and I think I know what you mean. Surely Elder Slann require only one Spell to change whole course of battle , but as hoping some more interesting gaming spell combos might do that. I also like the idea of changing battlefield by adding terrain and stuff. That is really great, and I hope that could be part of that combinable Slann lore also.

To be honest I would like that there only be playable younger Slann so Elder Slann would keep their distance from other more mundane things and also it would help them to keep respect they deserve. I mean you know this phenomenon how many things lose their credibility and attractiveness when it comes too familiar. I mean it would be better to keep them distant and godlike. Not interested as pathetic, mundane and primitive stuff like war. You know what I mean?

 

If the 2nd gen Slann were to cost say 800 points, you wouldn't see him in games under 3200 points. I like the idea of the most ancient Slann Priests occasionally appearing at a pivotal battle, though they usually spend their days opposing the will of chaos in deep contemplation. If things are so bad that the Elder Slann are coming to the field, things are really dire.

I like the idea of going back to the generation system.. the custom disciplines thing is fun, but like everything else there are a few that everyone takes and the rest are pretty much ignored.

When you say combinable spells, could you give an example of what you mean? Something like spell A lowers initiative then spell B causes initiative tests? Or maybe spell A raises a unit's movement to 10 and then spell B allows the unit to reform freely like fast cavalry?

 

Yeah I don't know, but I just like the way that we don't see elder Slann on the battlefield, since Mazdamundi can destroy whole dwarf civilization by causing earthquake in the other side of the world. I know it is hard to fit things in game to fluff, but I think some things could be left distant and outside.

I were thinking also that kind of combinations, but also it spells could have direct instructions what they do if they are cast in specific order. Some more advanced version of Lore of Life system. But of course should it contain possibility to use your own imagination to create new combos and choose in which situations you should use them. But also like adding terrain on battlefield and trowing enemy at them or allowing your own scouts lhide there. I could contain some simple combinations for less advanced players, and then yet more to discover. Probably creating some wall of force which could not be passed.

Those easy combination could be like 2 or 3 augment spells which have different effects when cast in different order. (Naturally giving something which Lizardmen need)

I also like the idea that special effect in spell lore like in Life could affect all spells you cast. Not only give extra damage to magic missiles. That was pretty good what you were designing to to that ancient Slann lore. Thought This kind of lore should have some ways to stop enemy ending these combination so easily. I mean like dispelling second spell and destroying whole combo. Probably rising casting scores like in fire so more spells you cast more power they contain.