Just saw that Swedish comp is working on something. While I'm open to civily discussing Lizardhammer, perhaps it would be a better use of our time to work on suggestions to send to the Swedish comp people suggestions since Swedish comp has a built in following that we could never match.
isn't that what we are sort of doing? I mean, there are a lot of good ideas here, but they probably need to be sorted. I don't know how to contact them, and it would probably be best if only one or two sends them L-O's suggestions, so they aren't getting spammed. Talking about cannons getting a point increase: Maybe Chameleons should get a point increase then
Pretty much every other shooter is getting a points decrease. In relative terms Chameleon Skink price goes "up" when they stand still.
There is an issue with these changes and that is the death star. With magic resistance working on miscasts, now a player can bunker their mages in giant units that are highly resistant to the effects of miscasts. Furthermore, with the toning down of the uber spells, there needs to be another way of dealing with deathstars. I think you're correct that the efforts of the community needs to be focused through a single group in order to achieve any sort of traction. Swedish comp, having an established name and track record, seems like a good bet. I think the ideas generated here can be complied and submitted collectively to the Swedish comp group. Why wouldn't the Chamo skinks get a price decrease along with everyone else? Are they considered that much more powerful than other BS shooters? I'm pretty sure Glade Guard (and WE friends... especially Waywatchers) can easily go toe to toe with them.
I think the point @ASSASSIN_NR_1 wanted to make is that if cannons became more expensive, war machine hunters would go up in value because of their ability to earn points.
Does a Brettonnian army have an effective way of dealing with deathstars? (He asked, not remembering which lores the problem spells are in or which lores the Brets can use.) I guess Dwarf armies use cannons since they cast no magic.
Been adding little bits to my version of the army book. Tried to do something to make Slaan have the option of dominating the magic phase (older generations) but be very expensive (not decided costing yet). Any thoughts? https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-MHS8GJixcPbGJxVTBQZ09FcnM
Deathstar counter: you can only ever have a maximum of 450pts of non characters in s unit and maximum 2 characters in a unit. Add your normal swedish comp rules on top of that.
Or there could be made "new" spells, like the "Piercing Bolts of Burning", so models in the unit is taken into account, saves could still be taken (but it would not need to be an uber spell, as it's probably only good when facing large units) in that way punishing people for taking them hordes. Or like Fiery Convocation, I mean at the end of the day, it's only strength 4 and with flamming attacks, some can get a pretty good save against it, but the thing is that it's mostly just good against big units.
That's a good point. The problem is that once all saves are allowed against the uber spells it will be hard to use magic to counter death spells. Imagine a deathstar with a great armour save and magic resistance 3. Or a Savage Orc death star with 2++ against magic. I'm not saying to that we should keep the uber spells, but rather that death stars become something we need to think about if we alter them.
I figured that would be what we're doing now, however there are two things in this: 1) suggestions from our perspective as a community concerning the BRB. 2) suggestions from our perspective specifically in terms of our army book. Since we're a rather active and knitted community I think we, together, can come up with a lot of suggestions for the BRB of which we can then properly set up and forward to Swedish Comp. Concerning the army book I see no others to be better at that than us =]
If one can only win by an uber spell there's something fundamentally wrong with the game. I do not see neither skills nor a good reason as to why I should be able to win by throwing 6 dice. I also don't see why someone should be able to win solely because that player have a deathstar unit that evaporates anything it touches. I'll say it again: the overall theme should be to win by combined arms. Reduce the efficiency of; uber spells, deathstars and artillery (mostly cannons). It doesn't have to be drastic changes. I want to see more creativity from players instead of "derp while lions star, gutstar, dark Knight death bus"..
I think that is a worthy goal for the game. Your idea of putting a 450pts cap on units and limiting the number of characters that can join could work.
My own suggestions: BRB Focus on combined arms and reduced efficiency of deathstars, magic and cannons. In the section of how to create your army include the following: Maximum amount of point per unit are 450pts not including characters. There can only ever be two characters in one unit (most deathstars just died). Magic resistance work on all magical damage from spells, however their price is now: 20/40/60 and do not stack with a ward save. Magic miscast table to be changed so spending a low amount of dice doesn't result in dimensional cascade. @hdctambien mentioned (modified by me) the following: Roll 1d6 + X where X is the number of dice you used to cast the spell: 2 wizard can't cast any more. 3-4 casting wizard takes s6 hit. 5 -6 s6 small template. d6 dice are lost. 7-8 all wizards take S6 hit. d6 dice are lost. 9 - 10 Wizard loses d3 levels and can't cast any more. 11-12 Dimension cascade. Which is fairly reasonable. I changed it so even if you spend 5 dice there's a chance to die. Dwellers bellow can at most do 2D6 (or 3D6?) hits (change casting value accordingly). Purple sun can at most do 2D6 hits for every unit fully or partially hit (change casting value accordingly). Look out Sir can be taken against both, ward saves can be taken as normally. Additionally a vortex may never be cast in combat or into combat. Change cannons to do D3 +1 wounds. Lone character can very easily die, but monsters will on average take 3 wounds and cannot be one-shotted. Shooting a character on monster is randomized (1-4 = monster, 5-6 = character). The BSB reroll can only ever be taken in the unit the BSB is positioned in. Fear grants a -1Ld modifier to the enemy. Should the test fail WS is reduced to WS1. Terror grants a -2Ld modifier to the enemy and only work in close combat. Should the test fail WS is reduced to WS1 and ASL is gained. Units with ASL reroll successful to hit rolls. Fear/terror needs to be effective without resulting in entire units leaving the board. I find that to be dumb. Terror units usually have a low initative and WS and thus benefit from being able to hit first, before they die. I'm not sure if the overall effect of reduced cannon efficiency, lower point units and change in BSB combined with fear/terror test is too powerful though. Monsters do need a serious comeback though. Lizardmen army book: A modified list from what @Scalenex posted earlier. Predatory Fighter can be gained from supporting attacks. Lords: Slightly reduce price of Slann. Change price on disciplines. We need to increase the incentive to pick the more obscure dicsiplines. Oldblood needs a price increase somehow. He's too powerful for the price paid. Heroes: Fine I think, maybe point increase of scar vets?. Reduce spear price on both OB/SV. Core: Saurus warriors can take a magic banner worth up to 25pts. Skink skirmishers needs to be changed so blowpipes are a more worth while unit. Skink cohort is fine. Skrox (should be an actual unit entry!): minimum size of 10 skinks and 1 kroxigor. Minimum price = 120pts. For every kroxigor you add you also add 10 additional skinks. Skinks in this unit are priced at 5pts. Skinks can be both musician and banner while a kroxigor can be a champion. -1 To Hit against a the kroxigors. You can only hit a kroxigor if you're in B2B contact with a skink that's in B2B contact with a kroxigor. At 450pts you can at most have 4 kroxigors and full command. Swarms are back to core Make sure one can fill core with swarms so add a rule somehow. Special: Templeguards are fine. Cold One Riders can take magical banner worth up to 50pts and spears cost 1-2 additional points. Cameleon skinks appear to be fine? Ripperdactyls change killing blow to ASF on units with the blot toad. The entire role of a ripperdactyl unit depends on actually being able to deliver the attacks, however, unlike wild riders our guys don't have high initative nor ASF. They currently require a ridiculous amount of skills and attention to be worth it. Kroxigors are fine. Added PF for supporting attacks will do them good, combined with changed fear test they'll be better. Terradons are fine? if the fireleech thingy is an upgrade that costs points it should be free. Bastiladon base price lowered to 120pts, comes with Ark of Sotec. Can change to Lazor beam for 20pts. Combined with core swarms and lowered price it's now more worth to take the ark. Stegadon is fine, however allow skink chief to operate the bolt thrower with his own BS. At 255pts I don't think anyone would actually deny us the chance of a bolt thrower. Rare: Ancient stegadon is fine, although change Engine of the God to 30pts. Troglodon needs a price adjustment - I suggest 170pts and the channel staff to be included in the price. The PF roar can be used every time it's our combat phase (our turn), but may only be nominated to one unit. The acid spit is changed to be a small round template that scatters D3 (or D6?) and do S2 no armour save wounds. Salamander is fine. Razor done to do armour piercing wounds. All of those changes would be very welcomed in my world. They don't fundamentally change how our army work, but allow for more creativity without tipping the scale of balance. Ark of sotec bastiladon with core swarms is a decent synergy, troglodon is now more worth it as a support monster and have a good synergy with PF units. Ripperdactyls are now easier to use and CoRs are back to normal haha. Overall all of those changes would make me very happy. We already have a very balanced book and I feel that those changes combined with the mentioned BRB suggestions would make for some great and varied army lists. Some of this might come off as powerful, but we have to remember that other armies/communities should do the same. We need to increase the likelyhood of picking and facing the lesser used units and level the internal balance of all books. The above mentioned are merely suggestions and I'm very open for discussions
Yes. Categories. Yesterday, I went back to my second index post in this thread and set up about four. It would be super helpful if everyone could tag their posts going forward. The plan is to periodically edit that post. Perhaps add links or summaries.
I disagree with this. The Slann is very powerful and well priced. I think a lot of players from other factions would be up in arms at the suggestion of lowering the price of a Slann. Tinkering with the prices of the disciplines is a good idea... we need to even them out a bit (increase the price of some and lower the price of others). Great list though, I think you have a lot of very good ideas in there.
I made some errors in my list. I'll fix them later or tomorrow. My mention of jungle swarm in core is hilarious though haha