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8th Ed. Lizardmen Hammer and Anvil Tactics

superskink3000
Saurus

superskink3000

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Hello there, I have just started back up with playing after a few months away and I was wondering what some hammer and anvil tactics that people used. From what I can tell we don't have any hammers that can negate ranks (unless I've overlooked something). I just want to know what some of you guys use and what tends to work and what doesn't.
 
We have hammers that can negate ranks you just have to have enough of the models to do it. CoC and Krox will do the job just fine. Also flanking saurus blocks work.

Temple Guard loaded up with the crack that is the lore of life are great at being anvils. Saurus blocks will do the job nicely as well.

My most common hammer/anvil is a saurus charge with a steg flank or rear charge.

Depending on what army you play and how deployment goes you may not be able to get to a flank with out sacrificing some skinks. I always try to have at least two groups of skirmishers to redirect.
 
I don't see how a saurus block makes a good anvil. Against almost anyone else's elite infantry they get hit on 3's and only hit back on 4's, and it's very hard to have enough ranks to be steadfast with them. I find that a Cohort unit works better, with 24 Skinks and 3 Krox. It will usually hold for one turn, sometimes for 2...and having a few Krox attacks from the 2nd rank is great insurance if your hammer arrives late or rolls badly when it does charge in.
 
Yes a basic saurus block will get hurt pretty bad against someone else's elite infantry. Core infantry to core infantry they can hold their own against pretty much everyone. If I need something to take a charge from Chosen or okhams witch elves Ill send temple guard in or better yet skirmishes that turn them the other way and let me see their flank. I have used a big block of skrox to perform the same function. I like the unit but find that I lose so many skinks its hard to win combat.
 
The Skrox aren't in your army list to win the combat. They're there to win the game :bored:
 
Saurus are a very good anvil unit if you use HW/S. And even if you hit on 4+. They are not ment to kill the enemy just stop it.
 
IMO our units, as far as the more cost effective ones, feel more like they are all Anvil units. Then the rest; chamo skinks, skirmish skinks, salamanders etc. are all support units.

Just my opinion though >_>
 
Agree with both parrot and Cyanhawk
Saurus are nice Anvils- i perfer them as anvils over TG.
hand weapon shield gives a 4+, 6+ ps(closecombat)
Saurus are naturall Str4 Tgh4 thats a plus
yes there intiative is one so your striking last, but there an anvil. And ws is 3, gotcha
But overall awsome decent
and pumped up saurus are pretty resilant. lore of life is pretty amazing when it comes down to it
especailly having Tgh 8 saurus taking hits but no wounds, and if they would you still have a save usually.
while shield of thorns can wear them down slowly. and they have two attacks a piece. so an anvil that can dish out a little too.
The kicker is lore of life ;P
 
I have to agree, I mean saurus are OKAY, but nothing special and what would be a hammer?
I'm looking for a unit that smack another one and.. POOF! its gone. or at least it takes one round then overruns.

I mean our army has to wither down the opponent or otherwise it doesn't play very well.

I want it to just beat the crap out of things in close combat, and hold like a mountain, but I don't see any units like that.
 
As a hammer I think CoC would be pretty good and kroxigors are very good at it.
 
If you take a unit of 10-12 CoC and place 3 characters in there (2 scar-vets and an old blood), that unit will hit other units and poof they are gone. You will need to hit a flank to get it to work for the most part, but it will work.
 
Take lore of light :) WS 10 I 10 changes the day!. If your opponents are being smart with their dispel dice I usually cast birona's or the -1 to hit on them first. These are both a pain in the ass and messes up combat just as much. Don't try and bubble birona's just stick it on the block with the most attacks. +4 Toughness is grand and good and regen is great. But other than that and the occassional dwellers I find lore of life lack lustre.

Turning any unit you have on the table into a hammer at will. That I find useful. If you take a skink priest with iceshard you can make stuff very very hard to hit. If your opponent has very few dispel dice I force through a speed of light with a few dice and then get off a sneaky birona's and watch elite units melt away.

People say that this type of battle plan is too relient on magic, but so is running lore of life to help you grind away cause without it your in trouble. But just so you know I also take dedicated hammers. Currently in the form of TG with razor standard or stegs. I am going to try a block of CoR and scarvets soon as well.
 
Nothing hammers like a charging stegadon, and a slaanguard is immovable as an anvil.
A crown of command vet can make saurus immovable too.
 
I find that our army is too expensive to field sufficient hammers or anvils. To have saurus as an anvil we need around 25-30 of them, and that caches in at around 300pts. And then we need more than one anvil. Plus support and hammers. I find it difficult to get a good balance. Yes, stegs hit like a brick wall, but they don't negate ranks (at least I don't think so), but once they're in combat they are more like anvils. CoC are super expensive, and from my experiences they aren't a waBLAM unit gone kind of unit unless you have 2-3 scar-vets in it. I also play VC, and an average army has a unit of grave guard and some form of super killy knights plus many anvils. I guess I just feel we can't field enough units in order to counter an opponents without relying too much on magic. Maybe it's just me.
 
My anvil saurus units are 20 models big. It´s enough to hold in place most of core units fo two turns at least. For more powerfull units I have flank/rear chargers near so my anvil unit does not need to hold that long. ;)
 
IMO saurus are good anvils. I usually run mine 7 wide and 5 deep with hand weapon and shield. Gives them 4+ armor and 6+ parry, not bad. Yes they aren't good at killing elite infantry but thats why you either A) don't let them fight elites or B) bring in the temple guard to fight elites. You only need them to hold the enemy up until the hammer arrives

Which brings me to my next great anvil unit. Temple guard are incredible! Numerous times I have fought down to the very last temple guard. They just don't flee and don't flinch. Plus they have S5 (halberds) which is nice.

I agree with most that Cold Ones are good hammer units. Kroxigor are OK but I'd prefer to slam a stegadon into a unit (adding in the war spear if points permit only adds to this). Kroxigor aren't bad but the problem is they're basically saurus with extra attacks and great weapons (and -1Ld and same armor). They will die too easily and cost 55 points each! Ridiculous. Use Cold Ones instead. Better save, better movement, same T and S5 on the charge. Oh and don't forget the stegadon ;-).

Forgot to mention the skrox units. I used to put these in all my lists (36 skinks and 3 krox) but sadly they didn't do so hot. The enemy would just whipe out too many skinks for them to be able to hold out in CC. The kroxigor rarely helped as WS3 makes it hard for them to hit people. One thing I can say though is that they did perform better when I put a skink chief in there with crown of command (stubborn). They did much better then until the enemy killed the skink chief. Who knows, maybe I'll give them a try again and keep the chief on the far sides in horde formation. Hmmm.... o_O
 
lore of life is pretty amazing when it comes down to it
especailly having Tgh 8 saurus taking hits but no wounds, and if they would you still have a save usually.
while shield of thorns can wear them down slowly. and they have two attacks a piece. so an anvil that can dish out a little too.
The kicker is lore of life ;P[/quote]

I find lore of light is great, don't matter if you're only T4 if your opponent can't hit you! WS10 being hit on a 5+ they can take on a load of enemies, then beat face with 2 (3 with timewarp) attacks each!
 
I've just had no luck with light. It seems like a very good lore when reading about it and I get excited to use, but once I'm on the table I feel neutered and wish I had taken Life.
 
I think of it like the lore of light is more to kill the enemy than to stop it(because of the higher WS more hits more kills ;) ). Life works better for anvil units because of the T boost and regeneration.
 
Our hammer is the Slann. His supporting magic can turn your saurus into gods, thus rendering them hammers and anvils, or turn the enemy into mush, thus rendering your saurus hammer and anvils.
 
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