If you have more ranks than your opponent at the end of a round of combat, you are classed as stubborn. I don't think many units are going to outrank 56 skinks and 4 krox... Vulnerable to flank charges though..
I am well acquainted with the idea of causing fear in your opponent. Anything that makes the guy across the table wonder what is the biggest threat is always good. Not to nitpick, but since I got burned by it already thanks to the new faq I just want to be clear. Stubborn is vastly different from Steadfast. Stubborn is an "unmodified" leadership test based on the best available leadership (inspiring presence, or what have you). So if you are stubborn, within 12" of your generals Ld 9, are 1 rank facing down 5 ranks, and even if you are within range of a leadership adjustment item like the demonic Great Icon of Despair, you still test on Ld 9. Steadfast is modifiable (Great Icon of Despair would apply), and to get it you need to have more ranks than the enemy. It's just not modified by combat res assuming you still have more ranks than your opponent at the end of combat. Steadfast is good, Stubborn is better
Yeah, look at page 76 of the rulebook, last paragraph. They even use the word 'Steadfast' to describe the effect Stubborn grants. It's just that Stubborn applies regardless of how many ranks you have, otherwise it's literally the same thing. The FAQ makes it clear that Steadfast (and thus, Stubborn) only prevents a negative modifier from combat resolution, not any other special rule or effect. Besides, Army Books special rules always take precedence over the main rules. Sadly, the Great Icon of Despair, the Masque, Doom and Darkness, etc. still do apply their negative modifier to Stubborn units.
Ok I'm gonna need to do some research on this. A tournament judge had me totally convinced last weekend that the interpretation I posted was correct. However; I'm now on vacation without my rulebook, no way to back up my position, and no desire to hijack this thread into a steadfast vs stubborn discussion
Arli i know i once (ten times) made a unit of 80 skinks 10 kroxigors the effect was just people hated em and with slann making them t 6 was just... then found out that krox needs to be in second rank (stupid) i relly dont see why?
That is the beauty of the unit. Keep 4 krox in the unit. That way, you have the 10 skinks (with a chief if you want to put some extra killiness in there) in the front row. When the skinks attack, they will not kill alot, but the kroxigors are going to clean up whatever you are fighting (usually). It will take forever to burn through those skinks. More than 4 kroxigors would be a waste.
I have not read all of the replies on this thread but there are some things about 8th ed which I think makes a big differense in the Lizardmen army. This is my first reply in this forum and english is not my native language so please have patience. 1. The Slann has truly become the master of Magic. He is great with almost any lore but with lore of Life the Army gets a buff that is out of this world. Be carefull to give your saurus T 8 when a screaming bell is on the table. Check what happens if it rolls 12-13. 2. The Saurus heroes have great new magic items to choose from so they can become really strong. 3. Taking spears with Saurus warriors takes more warriors to get the effect we had before. I prefer HW and shield. They survive longer at a lower cost and you dont have to have three ranks of them to be effective. 4. About COC. I dont know how to use heavy cavalary effective yet. I try but they die insanly fast in the magic and shooting phase and with steadfast they cannot charge from the front and there are never enough of them to break ranks if they get into the side. On top of that they are very expensive. Can someone explain how you use them effectivly? 5. TG die faster now that you have to use halberds and with I 2 they would have been better with Great Weapons. But there is not much you can do. They are still good. 6. Skrox are better since the enemy cant hit the krox in close combat. They have to plow through the skinks and that takes time so hopefully you break them before the krox gets it. 7. Terradons are even better. Now they are Fast Cav Skirmishers and have Stomp. Superb for warmachine hunting. 8. Sallys are one of the best shooting units in the game now. Move and fire and they hit many models and few are allowed armour save. Using them against high elves quickly get there points back. Extra tasty to burn swordmasters. Razordon have nothing to put up against their fiery cousins. 9. Stegadons gained some abilities but thanks to steadfast they can no longer rush units and break them. I still find them effective if properly used. I dont use EoG anymore since the slann is about the same cost and way better. 10. Skink skirmish cant wall anymore so I use ranked skinks as rankbreakers. Very good to have saurus in the enemies front and skinks in the side. They get a 6+ ward save in close combat and if they dont charge they can still throw posion javelins. These are the conclusions I made during my games with the lizzies since the summer. Please comment and tell me what you think about it.
Welcome to the board, and good opening post! You seem to have drawn good conclusions there in line with what most people think. In regards to the CoK, yeah it is difficult to justify taking them now. Some people use them effectively, and I have found my heavy cavalry to still be scary on the table for opponents, but they certainly can't do what they used to be able to do. Now they either need support, need to be used as flankers, or need to hit an already weakened unit from shooting or magic. If they die often for you, don't take them. They attract fire being useful, but expensive to do that.
personally, the only thing i do not like is the random power dice. in a specific time you need 7-8 and the WoM roll is 1-1 (it has happened and not only once). except this tha lizards army has adopted to the rules of 8th, besides the fact that we do not have a deathstar unit
Random PDs are nice, dont have to face 20-30 PDs as in 7th edition (vamps, daemons) Things I dont like in 8th: Warmachines are too powerfull, überspells are insane
The only thing I don't like is our Init, despite argueing with my locals about it (they think Saurus are plenty powerful as they are). In addition to the normal ways that Initiative screws us in combat, by making Saurus fight even after Skeletons, there are too many special powers and spells that turn it back against us too.
I think Lizardmen are definately a powerful army, but not the top 3. I really wonder how all these amazing tomb king rumors will hurt lizards...
And yet the rumors are rampant that the Lizardman army is the most powerful and easiest to use and if you win with them it has nothing to do with your being a good general
Meh, this comes from people listening to Podhammer. Switch on over to Heelanhammer and/or Baddice, they actually talk about warhammer.
The key to how strong an army is mainly due to how well the points cost balances with the battlefield effectiveness for any model and secondly to the synergy of any of the combos that the list allows. Most lizardmen models are overpriced; all our special characters are both poorly constructed and severely overpriced; only one magic item, one discipline and one rare choice are possibly underpriced. The number of different troop options are limited and the ability to customise these are also very limited. The saving graces of the army are that (though expensive) the troops are much better than average and that there are several good synergies to boost cost effectiveness. It can also be hard to lose if you keep your slann alive. But, unless you can get the good combos and synergies working, the expense of the models makes it hard to recover the points paid for them and lead to a lot of games lost or losing draws.
For someone who is coming back to the hobby from since before 8th, what would you say that magic item, discipline and rare choice are? I'm guessing Salamander hunting packs for the rare.