8th Ed. Lizardmen Magic

[thegraymist]

I've seen a few posts about Lizardmen magic but none that really delve into how to use it effectively and I'm keen to know what has worked for people?

I used to take Loremaster Life in the old rules and it made the lizards almost impenetrable with regrowth, +2/+4 toughness, 5+/4+ regen all available. Dwellers was nice too, if you managed to get it off.

Now, when I take Lizardmen High Magic, I am finding that I only get a couple of spells off a game that can be swapped out, despite a concerted effort to get metal and/or life spells. I tend to hang onto walk between worlds, drain magic, and arcane unforging. There's not really the luxury of casting sub-par spells just to swap them out... or is there? What if you roll a small first and second magic phase? It is better to swap out for combat buffs e.g Life.

Can anyone tell me what they have found works with High Magic (HM)? How do YOU use it, when do you swap spells and which ones do you swap, do your opponents let lots of spells through? I cant get the thing to work for me as well as I could with straight Lore of Life.

Also, what are your thoughts on taking all signature spells instead of HM? HM isn't a bad lore, I just had the comment tonight after the game that my TG and other combatty units were a lot softer than usual.

Also, do you bother with lore of beasts on your skink priests? Casting value 10 means 3-dicing wildform. Is it worth it?

 

[Abhorash]

I had to create an account just for this. I am a High elf player and I can tell you with serious confidence that High magic is great. However it is situational and only truly powerful once you are in that situation. There are two sections of High magic spells: ones that you should hang onto all game, and ones that are more fire and forget (literally with contemplation).

The smaller ones that are better to hang onto are obviously more of the buff oriented spells. Drain, Apoth, Hand, and Walk all seem to come into play at crucial points later in the game. Of course, forgetting these for spells isn't rediculous, its just not as effective as all of these can be used throughout the game. On a side note I would never get rid of Hand, Walk, or Drain magic. All 3 of those spells are amazing and have quite literally won me games.

The other category could just be labelled artillery. Quench, Unforging, Tempest, and Convocation.These spells are all meant to be popped off once or twice, do a lot of damage and then be swapped for good signatures or a lucky roll for a lore. Countless times I have popped a crown of command or a 4+ ward with unforging and then never cast it again, use contemplations for that to get a preffered spell. I'd go with wyssons.You will rarely cast Convocation or Tempest more then once as they have limited targets yet they are so destructive that one casting is enough. Against warriors of chaos? Drop convocation on his block of warriors, kill about 7 and swap for a new spell. You have now ruined his combat block, ruined his next magic phase (19 to dispel) and have swapped out for searing doom for those 4 skullcruahers you have to deal with. Soul quench is a 1-3 timer. Its awesome and it decimates stuff. Swap that out once combat approaches and get ice shard blizzard or whatever you prefer.

High elves with the book and lileaths blessing make High magic a threat, however Lizards are powerful in their own way as lore master mixed with contemplations is a serious combo that will prove useful time and again.

Have patience with High magic. Due to high levels of situational spells it will seem boring at first but once you get off any of those juicy spells at the right time you will fall in love with it. Its my favorite lore and having loremaster available for it is insane.

Cheers! I typed everything from my phone so sorry if anything is spelt wrong or sounds weird.

 

[Mr Phat]

Have only played one game under the new rules, but ive found that it was actually hard to swap, since I only threw dice after the spells I wanted to keep.

after speculating on the battle I realised this:



1.
Dont be afraid to swap your HM sign. spells. Remember you can swap HM spells to HM spells too, meaning you can get them back easy.


2.
If you get Fiery convocation of, swap it. your opponent probably havnt got more than one target worth casting it on + you might not get it off again anyway.
AND if you DO want it back later, remember that if you roll on HM and get a spell you already have you can freepick.


3.
Tempest is a good pick to throw early in order to swap. If an enemy has archers, ranged or flying chaff an early cast might give you more space / less wounds taken during the rest of the game + you are certain that you get that sign spell you want (I prefer Wyssan on my slann).

4.
Dont ever swap Hand of Glory.
when you need it, you need it now. Not next turn.

same for Walk between worlds, too good to not have around
(Salamanders might not be able to march and shoot anymore, but with this one they can potentially move 20'' extra AND THEN shoot).



if think this whole thing needs practice and time to master.
I dont feel confident enough that I will get the spell I want in other lores than
Beast, shadow, metal or death, where the signature spells are all good and useful.

I hate this as I used to use Loremaster with either life or light, paired with shadow

 

[thegraymist]

That's great stuff, thanks guys!

@Abhorash That is interesting about the situational spells, I see what you mean. That could be why it wasn't working carte blanche and my expectations were that it would. It's not a "beginners" lore so to speak. It is great to hear it DOES work though.

So far it seems best to throw dice at a couple of these ones early, get the benefit/kills and move on quickly to a specific signature for example eg. metal/death or even life to make the TG a bit more resilient.

I agree it will take some practice Phat. Lore of life doesn't, it's a buff and hack playstyle.

Additional experiences/suggestions welcome

 

[PlasmaDavid]

Piggybacking on this thread:

After looking through our new army book, sure a lot is improved but also a lot is still lacking.

Am I right in thinking that a good many of our units REALLY need to be backed with strong magic buffs to really shine? Especially now we have access to cheap Lore of Beasts, as well as High Magic.

 

[Mr Phat]

I agree with you...

Lizardmen has always been a "we need our magic" race....