Fantasy Lizardmen of the Southlands

[Nakki]

I have been working on a project writing a Southlands Fandex (it kinda went on hold 3 months ago when I figured I would wait for the new codex to write any rules). I know there are a lot of people around the forum these days so I figured I would begin the discussion of the Southlands! More than anything I am looking for as much information as possible from as many sources that might relate to the Southlands to help write the fluff.

I have all of the army books but can't say I have much else other than the Tichi-huichi fluff and the white dwarfs on Ibn. If anyone knows of other white dwarves that have fluff pertaining to the southlands it would help a lot.

The other big question is on other codex's. My knowledge of codex's like dwarves and tomb kings is limited (I have read through the 6th and 7th editions of both but nothing else). As the Southlands are far removed from Lustria the races they interacted with and the wars that shaped their history would have been very different. As such i plan on shifting the main antagonists from Skaven and Dark Elves to Dwarves and Tomb King (chaos of course still playing a significant part). Therefore if anyone knows of stories from other Codex's referring to any kind of relations with the Lizardmen of the Southlands I would love to hear about it.

Finally If you just want to talk about the Southlands (because they're cool!) Or write some stories of you own I would be happy in the deepest recesses of my nerd.

For now I am mostly interested in fluff, rules will come later but not to worry there will be horned ones

 

[Scalenex]

The new Tomb King book makes no mention of Lizardmen. The 5th edition LM book has two good fluff pieces involving the Southlands.

An Araby explorer is looking for a land route for caravans so his liege can bypass. He ends up negotiating with the Southlands LM instead of fighting. The Araby scouts that are great at finding water are used by a LM army so that they can cross the desert safely hopping from oasis to oasis. A Slann from a distance distracts the local Tomb King so his reaction is slow and only a (relatively) small army is readied in time. The LM beat the TK army down, they retrieve a mummified Slann that the TK earlier stole and the Araby explorers get to keep the gold. The LM won't allow the Araby people to make a trade route through their jungle, but the treasure they got allows the Sultan to build a new fleet of warships so he can use the sea again.

The second story is the story of a Cathayan officer that was part of a massive invasion fleet (I don't remember the target) that happened to get hit by a massive storm (summoned by Slann) and his ship got separated a lot. The unlucky man gets washed up on Lustria, runs afoul of the LM there, eventually finds a portion of his wrecked fleet, builds a new ship and THAT ship ends up stuck in the Southlands. He runs afoul of the SOUTHLANDS LM and barely makes it to Araby and negiotes passage back home, the only survivor from the largest naval group the Cathayans ever attempted.

 

[Nakki]

Good stuff. Ya i really like those stories. In the first it mentions a skink priest who knows ancient nehekarian which is really interesting and should make for some cool fluff. As skinks don't live very long (up to around 100 years as is mentioned in tetto-eko's story) and nehekara was a civilization (with real living people!) a few thousand years ago, this means skinks must be studying or passing down knowledge of the ancient language. Things need to be pretty important to make our old-one-obsessed lizardmen keep records about other races!

I think both of those stories show a lot of interesting character to the decisions of the Southlands slann and show their higher level of interest in the younger races than slann in Lustria (in both cases they acted upon the coming of foreigners much faster than lustrian lizardmen would).

 

[Scalenex]

Good stuff. Ya i really like those stories. In the first it mentions a skink priest who knows ancient nehekarian which is really interesting and should make for some cool fluff. As skinks don't live very long (up to around 100 years as is mentioned in tetto-eko's story) and nehekara was a civilization (with real living people!) a few thousand years ago, this means skinks must be studying or passing down knowledge of the ancient language. Things need to be pretty important to make our old-one-obsessed lizardmen keep records about other races!

I think both of those stories show a lot of interesting character to the decisions of the Southlands slann and show their higher level of interest in the younger races than slann in Lustria (in both cases they acted upon the coming of foreigners much faster than lustrian lizardmen would).

I think most Slann would be very interested in what the younger races are doing. In my own fluff piece, I had a Skink scribe who kept up the records from a past Skink who tried to learn the Orc and Goblin language (I needed some interspecies communication to advance my plot but I figured it was plausible).

I figured most Slann would group the races of the Warhammer world thusly.

The First (short for "First Children of the Old Ones"): Slann, Saurus, Skinks, Kroxigor, Coatl

Prodigals: Creatures created to serve the Old Ones who have lost their way to some extant: Empire, High Elves, Wood Elves, Dwarves, Brettonians, Ogres, Halflings and some of the nobler Monsters. Very liberal Slann would lump Dark Elves, Tomb Kings, and possibly Vampire Counts in this category.

Fallen: Prodigals who end up serving the Ancient Foes or similar dark powers, Dark Elves, Vampires Counts, Tomb Kings, Warriors of Chaos, Chaos Dwarfs. Isolationist Slann would not think to distinguish between Fallen and Prodigals at all.

Anathama: Creatures that were never meant to be by the Old Ones at all: Skaven, greenskins, Beastmen, and most monsters.

The Ancient Foes: Demons

Skinks would parrot the classifications of their ruling Slann, Saurus and Kroxigors would probably not bother beyond "Foe and not foe." I imagine the Slann would disagree with each other on how to classify different races and how to deal with each category.

 

[Valvorik]

Sorry to necro-this thread but seemed best way to ask if there was any further effort on that background for lizardmen of the Southlands.

I use WFB fluff in my WFRP game and am creating a Southlands fan-supplement, as you can see in this thread:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/95086-southlands-or-lustria-critters-and-ideas/

If you go to the end you can see links to the sourcebook in progress.

I used the Slann view of other races above in it, and want to credit author.

Rob

 

[Scalenex]

Wow that's a lot of good stuff in your RPG book! I just skimmed it, but I'll definitely want to go over it again in greater depth later. I'm a little iffy on the name Ebonians, it makes me think of the Dilbert comic series and their fictional mudswamped nation of Elbonia.

We haven't done a whole lot with the Southlands. We got a discussion of a Unofficial Southlands Army List

I wrote a fluff piece set in the Southlands.

Anyway, once again, you've written great stuff.

 

[Valvorik]

Thanks. Comments welcome.

I use "Ebonian" as I understand it was used in WFB/WRFP at sometime (e.g., in Tomb King books), but only as an Old Worlder term, not what those people call themselves at all. Call a troop of mercenaries from the city-state Ba'alwari "Ebonian" and they know you're ignorant of their ways, and treat you accordingly! Even the term "Ivory Kingdoms" is a colonial name originating with the ivory they get there, not what the locals call themselves. I try to give them "some better takes" on certain things (e.g., they know better than to conceive children when the winds of magic are blowing strongly, something others don't seem to have ever figured out).

From an "army perspective" the kingdoms of the far south, which are more like city states, do have war elephants etc.

 

[Valvorik]

Had a chance to read the linked story etc. Nice stuff.

The armies interesting too, some modifications perhaps to items to be found.

What is that substance referenced as being "good to have when going underground where it's cold"? Is that from a WFB text or your own invention?

I like Coatl-blessed poisons too, nice touch.

 

[Scalenex]

Had a chance to read the linked story etc. Nice stuff.

The armies interesting too, some modifications perhaps to items to be found.

What is that substance referenced as being "good to have when going underground where it's cold"? Is that from a WFB text or your own invention?

I like Coatl-blessed poisons too, nice touch.

Xiliqua root gum is my own invention. It loosely translates into "fire blood root". Skinks and Sauri an chew it to raise their body temperature. That way Lizardmen can enter areas too chilly for cold blooded creatures without relying on Slann magic. It's probably mildly poisonous to humans causing fever-like symptoms. Even Lizardmen get a little fatigued using it too long. It's also probably not potent enough to let Lizardmen trudge through the snow for very long.

I don't know how WHF RPGs work, but for game effects, priest blessed venom should work like normal venom on enemies that should logically be immune to poison (undead, daemons) and Coatl blessed venom would inflict double damage on beings of Chaos or heal most wounds contamination on Order beings if it's derelethi venom.

 

[Valvorik]

I like it - I will add both to my text and credit you (I got that PM by the way).

Oh and perfectly understood that there isn't much Southlands stuff on the boards given it doesn't get much attention in WFB and it seems as editions have moved along it gets less!

That army list you linked to for example has information I don't think the 6-7th edition book has and certainly not the current edition - I will be reviewing it with a view to content of my material.

It also looks like if I want more lizardman minis I better buy them soon with the way the End Times are going. I'm going to get my own Exodus Engine and flee your world too GW!

 

[Valvorik]

Updated file

List of what's updated here

 

[Valvorik]

Is there any insight into the possible meanings of the names of the Southlands' temple cities?

I looked through the High Saurian thread, a great resource but could not find many clues.

Zlatlan - "lan" indicates living city or "tlan", may also indicate "Slann", so that leaves "Zla" or Zlat"? As the most important city, its name's theme etc. would be good to know.

Nahuontl - depending on whether "huon" is a conjugation of "huan" it could be associated with "darkness, deep jungle, moon" (L Army Book 7th ed page 39 word list- I note the High Saurian thread doesn't seem to have some of these words?), "tl" may indicate a plural

Cuexotl - ? "tl" may indicate a plural or "otl" could indicate stronghold

Tlaqua -? Ruined, "qua" means "blood, fate"

Teotiqua - ? again, "qua" means "blood, fate"

Any thoughts?

 

[Scalenex]

I'm making assumptions based on geography really.

Zlatlan - "lan" indicates living city or "tlan", may also indicate "Slann", so that leaves "Zla" or Zlat"? As the most important city, its name's theme etc. would be good to know.

You go with "Xla" which is pronounced like a "zla" in which case Zlatlan would loosely translate as the source of laws/statements/orders. In other words it's the BOSS city in the Southlands.

Nahuontl - depending on whether "huon" is a conjugation of "huan" it could be associated with "darkness, deep jungle, moon" (L Army Book 7th ed page 39 word list- I note the High Saurian thread doesn't seem to have some of these words?), "tl" may indicate a plural

I'm not sure what to do with this. It could be either the hardest to reach city or the based used by geurilla warfare minded Lizardmen. They are on the edge of the LM holdings so they would fend off more invaders than most. It's also coastal. You could say that the different conjugation of "huan" is because it's referring to the dark depths of the sea and go with some kind of water focus.

Cuexotl - ? "tl" may indicate a plural or "otl" could indicate stronghold

You could tie it to Cuaq which means "learning/history." Your map seems to make Cuexotl your most interior city. If you run with Stronghold it could be a fallback point of last resort (but generally strongholds are in border areas right?" or you could have it as an isolated "ivory tower" to focus on greater mysteries and academic pursuits with relatively little outsider interference.

Tlaqua -? Ruined, "qua" means "blood, fate"

Teotiqua - ? again, "qua" means "blood, fate"

Both cities are on the edge of LM hodlings and look like they would be relatively easy to get to for outsiders. This could tie into fate and blood. It could be fated to fall because of having more attackers or fated to have constant bloody battles to maintain.

You could make up separate make up meanings for Tla and Teo to give the inflections you want to differentiate the cities.

 

[Valvorik]

Thanks!

Just in case not clear, the city locations in the map in my material are from a GW map.

Zlatlan - City of the Supreme Word (xla means law, thesis, statement), holds the most complete plaque sequence (per GW texts that Southlands are more complete than Lustria), that makes it the first city of Southlands.

Nahuontl - is in mountains (in my map at least, its location is GW but there are mountains there is my work), so the City of Darknesses, it is unique in actually being carved out of mountains and being mostly subterranean. Its earliest creation involved work by the Dro'ka'khanx (dwarves). An underground city just for fun and to confuse explorers (is it dwarven, is it lizard, mistake it for the lost original home of the dwarves?)

Cuextotl - the City of Archives (the sense of learning preserved against loss), intended to preserve the outcome of Slann ruminations (whenever one of those long meditations produces something useful), or looked at another way "the Journal of Slann Metaphysical Calculation" in the form of monumental inscriptions suitable to be viewed by any Slann in meditative spirit form (the severing of contact between Lustria and Southlands thus made more profound by cutting off the more populous Lustria from this resource).

Tlaqua and Teotiqua - were both planned for evacuation in the Great Plan as the human race was expected to expand into these regions from its designated starting points in Nekhara, Ind and Cathay. Tla and Teoti to be figured out.

How's that?

 

[Valvorik]

I have updated my Southlands RPG work a bit

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zqnkk94n5iiqafz/Southlands_draft.pdf

Most changes relate to the RPG aspects and stats, I continue to welcome comments and suggestions.

Summary of updates:

Lost City added (Slann name tbd) as abandoned around -1500.

Mwezibi - Morrslieb - is elaborated a bit in the mythology of Southlands, the "Mother of Monsters".

Hawks/Falcons added, mostly as "allies/pets" to give notable NPC's to spice them up a bit.

Added "silver needles" to Farspeaking cubes as the way to control (to extend feasible) robo dinosaurs and mutagenic zombies but more importantly “leave evidence”.

Creature actions fleshed out more in a few cases, Khar Yana are just conservative now to be simpler and get a custom "Fling Poop" action that adds a mix of filth, stress and disease threats, hee hee hee.

Arboreal creatures all gained an additional "drop attack" special feature reflecting the move-type action such a creature can make "dropping down" onto a foe.

A Jungle Gymnast trait added for even more acrobatic types.

A weaker White Ape type added for hordes to give PCs "Conan" moments.

Khar Yana pack leader fleshed out.

Adjustments to Savage Orcs, 4-armed white ape and coatl inspired by actually putting them into encounters etc.

A bit more information on several temple cities - with help from folks here at lustria online

Serpent Person Abomination added

River Peril cards added at the end (mostly for 3rd edition folks, others can adapt).

Lizardman Ruins Card added.

 

[Valvorik]

I have posted another update

A mix of rules (RPG ones) and fluff.

Update notes:

Baalwari situation fleshed out a bit more and secret wedding negotiations/palace politics spelled out.

Mangani shaman fleshed out.

Madcap fungi hazard.

Corrections to lizardman language section based on more armybook reading (skinks do not speak quickly etc.)

Giant Poisonous Frog Poison Tongue Action, Swoop action for hawks.

Serpent People Abominations - clarified they have Chaos trait as they are created from mutants, created a more human-type weaker one.

Clarified difference Hybrids (creepy snakey people) vs Abominations (mutants more monstrous) {think of one as Lovecraft and one as Howard}

Noted views of warpstone and mutants, tying them to Mwezibi.

Added Yena (the source of D&D's leucrotta)

Effects of lotus addiction spelled out more – can be a template for drug addiction.

Mindblossom added – a ‘hypersense stimulant’

Geomantic lines and channelling revised a bit as putting it into practice lead to review.

Pyramids and spirits added – a bit radical perhaps but a way of adding some more encounters to abandoned sites.

This last is the "wildest" idea. It comes of putting together fan thinking about spirits and ghosts as "impressions in the warp" and then as pyramids as storehouses of warp energy/transformer stations in the great web etc. and then, quite simply, wanting more things to meet in an abandoned pyramid.