8th Ed. Lore Of Shadow question about Smoke And Mirrors

[Ruggles]

Hi there Lizardmen,

I have a question for anyone who knows a bit about using The Lore Of Shadow.
Can a single Slann in an army use the Lore Attribute of 'Smoke And Mirrors'?

It says in my rulebook that if a spell from Lore Of Shadow is successfully cast, the casting wizard can swap places with a friendly character of the same troop type.
Does this mean swap places with another Slann? Or move into another TG unit?
If the latter - would there have to be a character within the 2nd TG unit?
I can't find anything in errata...

 

[strewart]

The Slann troop type is infantry, so he can swap places with any saurus or skink character on foot.

You are correct though that the army book says if both a Slann and TG are on the table, they can never be separated. This means if you bring TG the Slann can't move around unless there is another Slann in your army. Generally a shadow Slann tends to run alone without TG.

 

[Arli]

I used the lore attribute to swich places with a skink priest in a game last week. It really suprised my opponent as he thought the slann was consider monstrous because of the paliquin.

It was quite funny.

 

[Raein]

but wouldn't the skink need to be alone or can you swap the slann into the unit the skink was in?

 

[Arli]

He swaps into the unit that the skink priest is in. In that particular case, it was a unit of skink skirmishers our of the charge arc of his knights. It only kept the slann alive one more turn though.

 

[n810]

It might be more fun to swap with a old blood decked out for character killing.

 

[Goat1of4]

I had a Scar Vet in my Slann and Temple guard unit in a game against Skaven. The unit was charged by a Hell Pit and all of the Temple guard were wiped out. The following magic phase a cast Steed of Shadows on the Scar Vet (My opponent would have dispelled it had I tried to move the Slann). I then cast Miasma and used Smoke and mirrors to switch with the Scar Vet. Vet ended up killing the Hell Pit two turns later and my Slann joined a unit of skinks, living a long happy life.

 

[strewart]

I don't think you needed miasma for that to work. Smoke and mirrors activates after the spell effects, so you can steed the model then after moving it, use smoke to switch places on the steed spell.

 

[Ruggles]

I had a Scar Vet in my Slann and Temple guard unit in a game against Skaven. The unit was charged by a Hell Pit and all of the Temple guard were wiped out. The following magic phase a cast Steed of Shadows on the Scar Vet (My opponent would have dispelled it had I tried to move the Slann). I then cast Miasma and used Smoke and mirrors to switch with the Scar Vet. Vet ended up killing the Hell Pit two turns later and my Slann joined a unit of skinks, living a long happy life.

Can you cast Steed of Shadows on a character in close combat to remove him? I thought that, once locked into close combat - the character is stuck there until close combat has been completed.

Also - sorry for such an elementary question - for Steed of Shadows - can you make a flying march move, or does it just have to be the normal 10" move?

 

[ancient stegadon]

I had a Scar Vet in my Slann and Temple guard unit in a game against Skaven. The unit was charged by a Hell Pit and all of the Temple guard were wiped out. The following magic phase a cast Steed of Shadows on the Scar Vet (My opponent would have dispelled it had I tried to move the Slann). I then cast Miasma and used Smoke and mirrors to switch with the Scar Vet. Vet ended up killing the Hell Pit two turns later and my Slann joined a unit of skinks, living a long happy life.

Can you cast Steed of Shadows on a character in close combat to remove him? I thought that, once locked into close combat - the character is stuck there until close combat has been completed.

Also - sorry for such an elementary question - for Steed of Shadows - can you make a flying march move, or does it just have to be the normal 10" move?

this made me thinkin, can you use the shadow lore attribute in close combat because than it would be really easy to make your slann etherial --> openent trows a character with magic sword against it and you swap it with an old blood XD

 

[Euclid]

I too had the joy of surprising my opponent with Smoke And Mirrors last week, but the circumstances raised two further questions:

My opponent's Ogres charged and destroyed a unit of skinks, then overran into the flank of the lone Slann (his terrible miscasting had blown up all of his TG friends ). In my turn, I successfully cast a shadow spell, and used Smoke And Mirrors to save the Slann.

1. The Scar Vet who switched places with him: should he also be placed flank-facing the Ogres? (we decided there was no problem with me turning him to face the ogres)

2. We were unsure how Ogre Impact Hits work during an Overrun: we would always apply them at the start of the next CC phase. Further, we were unsure as to whether the Scar Vet should take those hits (we imagined the Slann vanishing in a puff of smoke, with the impact hits impacting against nothing). What are your opinions? (we rolled off and I got lucky!)

 

[strewart]

Wow lots of good questions in what really should be a simple rule.

I see no problem at all using smoke to get out of combat. Probably one of the main advantages of it really.

As to the facing, interesting question. I'm fairly sure it says you can place the model facing any direction upon moving, so turning the model should be no problem at all. In any case, I don't think for a lone character it makes much difference.

And the hardest question, where do the impact hits go if anywhere? I think you really just have to apply rules in the order that things are happening. The ogres overrun into combat, fine. The combat doesn't happen immediately, BUT they do count as charging in the next turn's combat phase. The Slann goes out, the scar-vet goes in, then the combat starts. The ogres charged in that turn (well, the turn before) so they should still get their impact hits against the scar-vet.

Any other interpretation and I think you open up the possibility of calling the ogre overrun a failed charge since before the combat started, the target they overran into (since you have to pick) was no longer in a chargeable place. And of course that would be quite unfair. Thats how I'd play it anyway.

 

[Ejpok]

Hello,
Lone models have a free pivot on the spot so The scar vet should be able to face the ogres.
As for impact hits, there are no impact hits when you overun, just when you charge...

 

[Arli]

They were talking about an over run that resulted in a charge the following round of CC. That would result in impact hits as it counts as a charge the next turn.

 

[BEEGfrog]

Don't have the massive tome with me to check properly but I thought overruns that contact a fresh enemy count as charging and get impact hits and all other charge bonusses. The new combat evaluated in this combat round if the contacted enemy is in a combat not already evaluated this round.

Why would an overrun not get impact hits?