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8th Ed. Lunch? Eat your greens - My Force for Orcs/Goblins

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Army Lists' started by Lizards of Renown, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. Lizards of Renown
    Skink Priest

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so opponent says that I agreed for next fight to be Orc's and Goblin's.

    It took me a little bit to reorganize my thoughts as I REALLY wanted to stomp his WoC.

    Anyways, so fine. Time to go green.

    This is what I reckon:

    ‎Slann: Becalming Cogitation, Harmonic Convergence, Focus of Mystery, Channeling Staff, Ironcurse Icon, BSB, Banner of Discipline

    With 21 TG with a Revered Guardian with Fencers Blades

    OB: CO, GW, Talisman of Preservation, Stegadon Helm

    2 x Skink Priests (Level 1)

    Gor-Rok
    Saurus x 24

    SV: ‎GW, Armour of Destiny
    Saurus x 23

    Skink Skirmishers: 3 x 10

    Chameleon Skinks: 2 x 5

    Ancient Stegs with Giant Blowpipe x 2

    Salamanders x 2

    -

    My idea is decked out Slann with HM so he is flexible for what my opponent fields.

    Lots of things to induce leadership tests (CO and Salamanders for Fear, Stegs for Terror, also panic tests for anyone flamed by Salamanders)

    Skinks and Cham Skinks for Giant and/or Night Goblins with Fanatics.

    Giant Stegs to blowpipe the s**t out of things.

    Keep the TG and both Sauri regiments back. Every shooter gets in range and then shoots, while moving back.

    OB on CO to rush to help anyone in trouble.

    -

    I have played this guy with Orcs and Goblin's before. He did Snotling Pump Wagons, Giant, Savage Orcs, Black Orcs, Squig herd, spear chukkas, lots of Goblins with fanatics, Trolls.

    I think that my list above would cover any eventualities from the above...

    -

    Would appreciate any input from the heavy hitters:

    @Scalenex @NIGHTBRINGER @ASSASSIN_NR_1 @airjamy @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl

    Cheers guys
     
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  2. Lizards of Renown
    Skink Priest

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    And @Aginor if you wouldn't mind awfully ;)
     
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  3. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    To my recollection, I have never lost to Orcs and Goblins. I usually lose to Warriors of Chaos.

    In some ways I think Orcs and Goblins is easy mode for Lizardmen. That said, let's crush them!

    That's illegal. Revered Guardians are capped at 25 points for their magic weapons. I would recommend giving your Revered Guardian a 5 point or a 10 point magic weapon. The Warrior Bane is pretty solid for potentially docking enemy monsters some attacks.

    Give the Temple Guard the Banner of Eternal Flame. It's pretty cheap and is great for dominating trolls. River Trolls are arguably among the best anti-Lizardmen unit that the Orcs and Goblins have.

    A few more Temple Guard would not be amiss. I would recommend giving your Skink priests the Lore of Heavens. If you can roll one of the lightning spells, that's great. If not, Iceshard Blizzard is handy for reducing damage from Rock Lobbers and Doom Divers. Rocker Lobbers and Doom Divers are arguably among the best anti-Lizardmen units that Orcs and Goblins have.

    Given the danger of rock lobbers and doom divers, I would consider putting your Old One on foot. With the base save, Stegadon helm, and light armor that's a 2+ save. not quite as good as 1+ but it gives you a modicum of protection from artillery.

    Lots of Skinks are good. Skinks are pretty good at shooting Snotling pump wagons, giants, Mangler Squigs and more.

    Salamanders are great at killing goblins and okay at killing orcs. Skinks are good are good at protecting Salamanders.

     
  4. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Carnasaur

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    From experience: Never get your stegos in combat with a giant, the only exception is if you have a high chance of killing it on impact; With that said I think you have plenty of shooting that's effective against it, so it can go down very quickly.

    Walk Between Worlds is neat for nullifying fanatics, since you don't take any damage when ethereal and they will die on impact.

    The Black Orcs might be a fine choice to cast Fiery Convocation, if the unit is big enough; Also if you cast Tempest on Goblins it might even do some nice damage.

    The guy in my group that plays Orcs and Goblins almost always take a few very powerful magic items, if your friend does the same then Arcane unforging is golden.

    If he has a horde of savage orcs that could be dangerous to your saurus, but if you can whittle them down before combat you should be fine, and they should take wounds quite quick as they basically have no armor (although they could have a decent ward save of Wurrzag is around).
     
  5. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    I fear I can't be of much use here, I have never played 8th edition.
     
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  6. Lizards of Renown
    Skink Priest

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    Nice, good point on Revered Guardian weapon (whoops), I think I'll just leave him out as a liability to being challenged.

    Yes, Lore of Heavens! Do you think I should just go with Tetto instead of the two priests?

    Will increase TG a bit.

    That is an awesome rock-paper-scissors breakdown! I will read this thoroughly.
     
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  7. Lizards of Renown
    Skink Priest

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    I'm very sorry for your loss. I'm sure @NIGHTBRINGER joins me in grieving for the life you could have had.

    ;)
     
  8. Lizards of Renown
    Skink Priest

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Great points and will look out for the Savage Orc unit and Giant Blowpipe them / Skink them.
     
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  9. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    OldBlood

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

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    Haven't got much to input here as what you've chosen is generally pretty good against Greenskins.

    2 Saurus blocks and a Temple Guard unit are a solid counter to any infantry and regular cavalry they may have, so that's a good start as that will put pressure on your opponent right from the outset. Salamanders are nice against Goblin hordes and I notice you've gone magic heavy, so that'll help ensure you get your buffs on your units and debuffs on them just to make sure your Saurus win the ensuing scrum ;)

    The only thing I would say is that is it really be necessary to have 3 units of 10 Skink Skirmishers AND 2 units of 5 Chameleon Skinks (given that your opponent will most likely bring only a single Giant, if that, and only two bigger units of Night Goblins with Fanatics rather than a larger number of smaller ones, as well as the fact that you've got two Ancient Stegadons with Blowpipes that can take out those same units anyway)?

    I'm worried you haven't got anything to counter Arachnaroks (which have a good armour save and 8 wounds to help last longer against blowpipe shooting), so I'd say you'd need a Carnosaur to help out here (especially as Greenskins don't have cannons). I'd say sub out one of your Stegs and a Skink unit or two for one, which would serve as a better mount for your Oldblood given that he isn't in a Saurus Cavalry bus according to your list, so that you still have one Steg and a smattering of Skink units.
     
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  10. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    No, In my opinion, Tetto is so powerful that a list should built around him. Tetto should not be a last minute addition or change.

    I disagree given that Chameleon Skinks can always attack artillery pieces and most O&G armies have lots of artillery.

    I agree Arachnaroks are a dangerous monster. I haven't thought of them much. I have a good friend who has lots of Orcs and Goblins but no Arachnaroks and he doesn't like spider riders. I believe it's largely aesthetic. He doesn't want to spend all that time painting a spider.

    Arachnaroks are not invincible but they cost 290 points and it takes more than 290 points of Lizardmen to bring them down. If you see an Arachnarok, I would advise swapping out spells on your Focus of Mystery Slann ASAP. Spirit Leech and Searing Doom probably won't take down an Arachnarok but it will soften one up to let you take it down with Skink shooting or massed ranks of Sauri.
     
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  11. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Unless you use Kroxigor. 4-6 Kroxigor can probably take down an Arachnarok without support and walk away with half your Kroxigor alive.

    The problem is that while Kroxigor are great at taking out the support monsters of the Orcs and Goblins army, they are not very good at fighting literal orcs and goblins.

    I guess that's what Walk Between Worlds is for. On the other hand, any experienced opponent will usually prioritize Walk Between Worlds as the number one spell to dispell. I rarely get this spell cast successfully, but that's not a bad thing. This frees me up to two-dice magic missile spells with impunity.
     
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  12. Lizards of Renown
    Skink Priest

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Scalenex and @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl for the input!

    I happen to know my friend doesn't have any Arachnarok Spiders (thank F for that) and after one Skink skirmisher unit carved up his Chaos Giant in our last WoC matchup, I think it unlikely to make an appearance.

    I've been looking over his army list and I'm thinking several Night Goblin units with fanatics, several snotling pump wagons and spear chukkas (literally why not, they're so cheap) and then a mixture of orc units. I know he has large Squig and spider rider units.

    So I'm thinking that I will be outnumbered 2-1 type of thing. Meaning he will finish deploying way after me and will position those units vunerable to the Skinks far away from them.

    I figure if I have at least two Cham Skinks then I can deploy them last to plug a hole so to speak.

    I'm expecting a trolls unit so will get the flaming banner for sure.

    The Carnosaur really didn't impress me in the WoC match-up and he'll be firing all three or four Speak Chukkas at him every turn. Bound to get a bit at some point with a D3 wounds thing seems dangerous.

    Has anyone tried using Kroq-Gar and Grymlok? His spear (1 wound equals 2 for combat resolution) and Grymlok with a 5++ save seems quite inviting againsts orcs and goblins,.... just a LOT of points.

    Any suggestions or holes in my logic?

    Thanks a gain for the input everyone.
     
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  13. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    No holes in your logic.

    Kroqgar is a suboptimal choice. He's not a terrible choice, he's just not a part of competitive lists. He won't ruin your list by inclusion.
     
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  14. ASSASSIN_NR_1
    Carnasaur

    ASSASSIN_NR_1 Well-Known Member

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    I think he is meant for undead and daemons where his extra combat resolution helps him, and where he won't suffer from Grymloq not having Bloodroar.
    Against Orcs and Goblins I think I'd always take bloodroar on a Carnosaur.
     
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  15. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    You're Awesome (3).jpg
     
  16. Lizards of Renown
    Skink Priest

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    So, been thinking about the Spear Chukka's. He's bound to have maximum six of them... meaning even at 5's or 6's to hit he's bout to get a lucky shot at a Steg or Unit...

    I'm thinking about getting at least one Terradon unit to go F them up... Maybe have t pass within
     
  17. Lizards of Renown
    Skink Priest

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    8 inches of the Night Goblin unit, but on it's side and over another unit so if he wants to target me he'll have to send it into his own forces...

    Any thoughts?
     
  18. airjamy
    Terradon

    airjamy Well-Known Member

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    I would ad to that that you can just build a better Carno rider yourself for less points, nothing in his kit really stands out.

    List looks good, I would just add more TG instead of one or maybe two of the priests. You intend to use them as Vassals? If you do, your probably only will use one, if at all.
     
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  19. Lizards of Renown
    Skink Priest

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

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    Okay, thanks everyone for chipping in on this. Very helpful.

    On magic, I've been reading a bunch of @Scalenex 's threads on building armies around lores, which are best for what, etc.

    I think High Magic isn't going to do me any favors here.

    Apart from a Giant, I don't think I'll be seeing any big monsters. I think I'll mostly be confronted with a LOT of troops, Squigs, Manglers, etc.

    He'll know that I've got a bunch of shooty type stuff, so he'll move in and try to surround each of my units. I don't have the troops to prevent that so it seems like I need to use skinks and Salamanders to attack his flanks, while I keep the Stegs, 2 Sauri blocks and the TG in the middle, keeping them back a bit so that the giant Blowpipes, Cham Skinks and Terradon unit have a chance to thin the herd before we get into combat.

    And then... magic. I'm tempted to do wandering deliberations as it's quite the toolbox. High Magic has the movement, WS increase and the nuke spell though...

    Any suggestions?

    I openly admit that I may be overthinking this. I also openly admit that I do like a good chew on a) making my army list and b) coming up with a good plan for my army list.

    I will also admit it helps me with the periods when I can't play due to time and lack of opponents. So thanks for helping me out with this.
     
  20. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    Yes, you are overthinking this. A general all comers list is usually pretty solid against Orcs and Goblins. It's not necessary to tailor a specific anti-greenskin list.

    Though I will admit it's fun to make hypothetical lists that will probably not be played.

    When I make a hypothetical list I tend to tailor it around a single unorthodox choice and then build the rest of the list to make up for the unorthodox choice.
     

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