AoS Making Seraphon Real Again - Fluff

[Gypsey]

Let's face it, the current fluff for the seraphon feels rushed. Ever since the old world was destroyed, we become these light beings of stardust. No drives other than destroying chaos. A sheer lack of individual motives or relevant heros.

I have filled that void with a story that makes sense to me, and can still match the lore written by GW. Seraphon ARE flesh and blood, at least at first. Spawning pools exist in the ziggurat star ships. They constantly pump out new spawnings of seraphon. In the starship is a thriving society and new seraphon compete in challenges to prove their prowess. Many of these challenges are deadly, only the strongest, most clever seraphon survive.

Seraphon can also prove themselves on missions, given to them by the skink starseers. The Slann teleports them away to battle against whichever race is required as part of the master plan.

When a seraphon has reached high enough status, it can be brought before the Slann in a special ceremony. There the seraphon will be sacrificed before the Slann so it can absorb the essence and memory of them. In this way, the seraphon will live in the magic and memory of their Slann and can serve them forever.

Once a seraphon has been absorbed, that is the only version which can be summoned. If these remembered lizards are killed in battle, they lose of knowledge of their previous incarnation. For this reason, it is customary for a seraphon fo live many hundred years before seeking a ceremony with the Slann.

Remembered seraphon can be easily transported through space and time without losing their memories. Only when their existence is shattered in death do they reset to the day of the ceremony.

The armys of men and beast alike rarely experience the small skirmishes of live seraphon and live. Many more have seen the devastation an army of remembered warriors can have on the truly living. This is why most accounts tell of lizards vanishing into rays of light when pierced by a weapon.

I feel this way gives more depth to the Seraphon. Introducing the desire for personal achievement. The significance of the choice of when to meet the Slann. The risk of dying in battle, especially after living a reincarnated life for a long time. These concepts make me like the idea of Seraphon more than stardust lizardmen from space.

 

[LizardWizard]

Seraphon could use a new codex. When ours was written it was the age of there-are-no-details-so-you-make-it-anything-you-want guys. It would be nice to some more fluff though. Us lizards are frequently overlooked.

 

[Warden]

I have filled that void with a story that makes sense to me, and can still match the lore written by GW. Seraphon ARE flesh and blood, at least at first. Spawning pools exist in the ziggurat star ships. They constantly pump out new spawnings of seraphon. In the starship is a thriving society and new seraphon compete in challenges to prove their prowess

Between this and the teleportation it reminds me a lot of star trek (I approve).

How much of the ziggurat ships is fleshed out in the Lore? How big are the ships and their population?

Where do they fly to? Do they explore the galactic void between the realms? Do they visit planets? When they visit a planet, do they terraform it into a jungle in a parody of the Old World they lost? Have they found other worlds, similarily populated by descendants of the Old Ones, still carrying out the ancient instructions of their long lost masters?

Cool ideas, this has me thinking.

Also @Scalenex master of fluff may want to look at this thread and share his opinions.

 

[Galen]

Presumably you've read the Malign Portents story https://malignportents.com/story/dying-star/

So according to that, Seraphon are flesh and blood, born from spawning pools in the Old One's starships. Furthermore there's huge chunks of Lustria inside those ships where the Seraphon live when they're not fighting. Now how does this mesh with the accounts from our Battletome where Seraphon bleed light, and Black Library stories like Clan Pestilins where Seraphon are memories re-incarnated over and over again?

There's a quote from our Battletome that may reconcile these two seemingly contradictory points:

Few creatures have mastered the secrets of magic like the slann. Long aeons spent traversing the stars have saturated their minds with the power of Azyr.

It's that mention of saturation that holds the key. If the Slann themselves are infused with Azyrite energy, then whenever they summon their forces to battle, they're going to be using Azyr energy to do it. That means that a flesh and blood Seraphon force that is teleported to the surface is going to be saturated in the energy of Azyr in the process. The mentions of Seraphon bleeding light are a result of that.

As to the Seraphon being memories, it's clear from the Malign Portents story that the spawning pools are directly under the control of the Slann. The exact means by which they work hasn't been discussed, but if the Slann are so connected to Azyr, and their warriors are also saturated in the same energy, it stands to reason that the Slann, who can see the minds of all the Seraphon under their command, would be able to essentially remember a blueprint of a particular warrior and manipulate a spawning pool to bring them forth. This may seem like an unimaginable amount of work for a Slann to remember the personalities of hundreds or thousands of Seraphon, but the Slann are consistently presented as being mages of unimaginable power, with vast minds. Such beings would certainly be capable of remembering that amount of knowledge.

 

[Gypsey]

I like your concept @Galen. The notion that a Slann could directly influence the generation of a spawning pool is another way to reconcile the generation of past seraphon. Maybe their deep trance state is, in part, due to them focusing on respawning seraphon. I did read the Malign Portents story, which gave me the idea of spawning pools in the starships.

One nuisance in my version is that the Slann doesnt remember every seraphon under their control. In fact, if a seraphon were to parish in battle without a Slann present to remember them, than ther would be no chance of them being remembered back into existence. Otherwise a seraphon would have no reason to flee battle or fear death.

 

[Galen]

Skaven Pestilens, by Josh Reynolds, we actually get a Slann PoV section:

He could feel the pulse of star-born energies that were his chosen cohorts. Each one was as unique as the stars in the firmament, and as precious to him. They were his claws, his fangs, his darkest dreams made scaly flesh. When they roared, they roared with his voice; when they bled, they bled with his blood. They were his dreams, and he wielded them with a deftness that was spoken of in awe by his fellow slann.

The central points of his constellation glowed the brightest – his rage, his cunning, his hope, made manifest in his chosen champions. Oxtl-Kor, a proud beacon of cold fury and determination; Takatakk, a quicksilver flickering of celestial power, ebbing and strengthening with Kurkori’s attentions; and Sutok, saturated with the very stuff of Azyr, his scales glowing with the light of the stars themselves.

So the Slann can remember every Seraphon under their command. Interestingly, in the same section, there's this quote:

He could send him back into the dream, or stoke the rage which flickered within him. Too, he saw the looming moment that the Oldblood’s life-thread was cut short. Death was not the end for the seraphon, for they did not truly live, save in the memories of the slann. Even so, each death was like a thorn in Kurkori’s flesh, a persistent pain which never dimmed.

Saying that the Seraphon did not truly live could be interpreted two ways. One is that they're star-stuff, not flesh and blood, but the other is that they can be reborn from the memory of the Slann, yet their birth and death is entirely at the whim of the Slann. So they do not live, as say as man might be said to live, with birth, and growing, and learning. The Seraphon are born fully formed, with memories implanted into them, a memory of a lost world reborn anew. Sending them back into the dream could be seen as returning them to the starships, since the ships themselves are all that remain of the Old Ones, so far as the Slann know, and thus the dream of fulfilling the Old One's wishes.

 

[Aginor]

Interesting concept!

I also think it doesn't strictly have to be one or the other. The version I came up with is this:

There are....
1. Lizardmen survivors on the space ships. Those are probably the most powerful ones. Many Oldbloods and all Sunbloods are among those, and all the Slann. (canonical)
2. newly spawned Seraphon on space ships (canonical).
3. newly spawned Seraphon created in new spawning pools _somewhere_ (not canonical but probably possible)
4. Seraphon created from magic and the memories of Slann, they vanish if not supported by the Slann anymore (canonical)
5. #4, but "solidified" by the Slann (half-canonical IIRC. The stories don't tell us.)

I think that #4 and #5 are very stressful for the Slann. They have to dedicate parts of their brains to that so they cannot use those for casting spells and such stuff. This fits in nicely with the gameplay mechanic of summoning. #5 is even more stressful than #4 but once the Seraphon is solidified the Slann doesn't have to concentrate on him again, so they effectively become the same as those from #1, #2 and #3

The #1 guys are VERY precious, and the Slann will only risk those in times of great need. Since everything else is basically replaceable the Slann will keep those near them.

#2 and #3 are much slower to grow instead of summoing them, and they have to be moved of course. They also might not fit every task perfectly, sometimes there might not be enough Skinks available for example, so the Slann would bring Saurus of #2 or #3 but bring Skinks of #4 to support them.

All of the five categories can be teleported by the Slann, but not everywhere at will, but only to certain places that are either near a Slann, an Engine of the Gods, or perhaps some other special places like ley-line intersections or something. Teleporting is less stressful for the Slann than summoning, so they still like to move many of their troops in a natural way.

 

[Scalenex]

Also @Scalenex master of fluff may want to look at this thread and share his opinions.

Okay.

When ours was written it was the age of there-are-no-details-so-you-make-it-anything-you-want guys.

LizardWizard summed up my conclusion.

Let's face it, the current fluff for the seraphon feels rushed.

I agree. I'm going to point out that when Warhammer was first created it was not very fleshed out. When the LIzardmen (and almost every race) first debuted, they were not very fleshed out. It took over a decade of gradual building to make the Lizardmen what they became in 7th edition and 8th edition.

That doesn't mean that I'm optimistic the Seraphon will get lots of rich new fluff in the years to come. I'm not pessimistic either. It could go either way. Writers show favoritism (currently the favorites are the faux Space Marines), but money talks too. If the Seraphon sell well, they will get more development than the others. If Seraphon sales drop, they will quietly fade from view.

In the mean time, I am okay with you-make-it-anything-you-want .

So the Slann can remember every Seraphon under their command.

I actually thought of playing with this. My fluff city of Klodorex, the most admired hero is Kaitar who stepped up when the Slann were abasent. The Slann cannot really remember him at all. If say, I bring back all my Lizardmen fluff characters as Seraphon, they are likely to be extremely sad that Kaitar is not among them.

 

[Tepec-Inzi]

Just to bring more "canon" to Seraphons being "resurrected" by the Slann, here's a detail found in the Realmgates War vol. 2 "The Balance of Power":

Spoiler

Taktak’rillo has been slain many times (...). Yet Lord Xen’phantica always reconjures his favoured skink – reshaping him out of memory and star magic, only occasionally forgetting the exact pattern of feathers Taktak’rillo prefers to wear in his cloak.