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AoS Mathhammer average marshal statistics of the Seraphon

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Erta Wanderer, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Ivor
    Skink

    Ivor Member

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    Hi All!

    I made an excel table comparing unbuffed damage.
    Note that skinks are easier to buff than saurus.

    My conclusion is that on all fronts, salamanders are just an amazing deal.
    The starpriest buff also really helps because its so easy to get +1 to hit and we have large volume of attacks.
    The scarveteran on carnosaur is a great deal, especially if you give him an artifact, but stegadons seem to underperform.
    Lastly saurus warriors can do nice damage when you include them in the battalion for the starlight suballegiance.

    The underlined dmg is the dmg versus a 4+ save factoring the rend.

    I'll gladly share the excel file to share the calculation but I don't know how to via this forum (and I don't have fancy office sharing capabilities :()
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Ivor
    Skink

    Ivor Member

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    I also have a smaller formatted one. This one is a bit easier to read. All numbers are per 100 points spent and without buffs unless specifically mentioned.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    thanks a bunch this makes my job easier . i wount be able to get to all of them for at least a week
     
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  4. Asamu
    Temple Guard

    Asamu Well-Known Member

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    Something seems off in your math on the new stats here.

    Vs a 6+ save, the new Oldblood should be averaging ~3.222 damage with the maul/greatblade, or ~2.87 damage with a warblade. That's in coalesced, but that's only adding ~0.278 to the damage because of the extra bite, so the average should be super close to 3. The math you have there for the maul is averaging ~2.03 damage, which is drastically lower than it should be.

    It looks like maybe you forgot about the exploding hits with the celestite weapons?

    No? Skinks have cheaper buff characters, but they're definitely not easier to buff, given that saurus have more buffs they can be given and Saurus lists get more access to CPs (or at least CP recovery) to grant those buffs.

    Skinks have 1 +1 to hit buff and 1 +1 attack buff (for melee only), both from command abilities, and then Serpent staff for the mortal wounds on 6s.
     
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  5. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    i did forget the exploding 6s but that got fixed in the new comparison that is coming out either to day or tomorrow. i was working from the bad image things should be better soon and it will have all the units
    not my best work but i did throw it together in under an hour
     
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  6. Ivor
    Skink

    Ivor Member

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    What I meant with easier to buff is that skinks can get the buff from 1 cheap hero: the priest. Which can also give them +1 save and run and shoot/charge. Which for the salamanders is amazing.
     
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  7. Acehilator
    Kroxigor

    Acehilator Well-Known Member

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    One +1 to hit buff without CP cost (Master of Star Rituals on a Skink Priest)
    In Fang of Sotek they can attack twice per turn.
    As Coalesced they can get another free +1 to hit on two units from Shadowstrike Temple-Host.
    At 18" range, with all buffs also active for melee in pinch.

    Just all around amazing too. While I am still torn about now being the real blunt instrument in The Plan of the Old Ones instead of a cerebral one, the vastly improved array of useable and really strong units just cannot be denied.
     
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  8. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    ok a finish the comparisen between old and new combat stats. i had to break it down in to units to share it.
    a few things of note i do not include alphas they are often to small to matter, there are all unbuffed unless the buff comes from the unit itself so rippers have their toad bonus but not the chiefs command point buff, those are coming later in a unit break down
    i probably made mistakes let me know if you find any
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
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  9. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    bastiladon
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sze2-mGXFwoMKMKd?e=8P2BoO

    chameleon skinks
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxq_IRDRXsyES5JT?e=7yzD76

    EotG
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syAHLncXcKKLHSBg?e=AmPpto

    kroxigor
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sx4RBreXxuPOBcPR?e=IB8NsV

    razordons
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxyZ7SrwCS_pmNMZ?e=xpiane

    salamanders
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxdMiUS1EY__MGdM?e=xlUes0

    ripperdactals
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxjjplVTIhVlrDkE?e=HA6gvl

    teradons
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxFvVBOhe2yx5duS?e=adZu83

    trogladon
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5szpJu4ApWV0lDwXu?e=nRtcbi

    warriors
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxQgBS978Ch4owRO?e=ohO8UP

    knights
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxVbk91Hh-SFhch2?e=RMWfRE

    guard
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxYRaY-4GrK-WBkB?e=wOlXXG

    skinks
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sxPz0ap-kcFO3MrB?e=8ekhmL

    slann
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5szSBsYbe90qjrCEK?e=jH5kKS

    stagadon
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5szn5gDNaQ_fteIN2?e=gmydvs

    starseer
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5szGwtbU2h2JHk9Pq?e=B8wArO

    starpriest
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sy_i9Ga2mkl8rXi9?e=PlJASC

    skink priest
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sy1gRcjJJTOIA1Wb?e=SsAhzb

    sunblood
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syzkEWYg92V5U9dI?e=hz1xfz

    astrolith bearer
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syKDEyYv0zc66ySa?e=EwWoBf

    eternity warden
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syTWDDw5ZJjRSJV8?e=RgExXt

    old blood on carnasuar
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syfw7Y0cXeKyXUFp?e=IP46Bh

    oldblood
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syZS8o2jeTVYuE8y?e=plIG9c

    scarvetran on carnasuar
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5syl5jQsYrjvs0D8t?e=61Z5jx

    scarvetran on cold one
    https://1drv.ms/x/s!Atva9vVE1gJ5sypr-S3rRca8O4NS?e=ZFm5MN
     
  10. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    You're awesome!
     
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  11. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    i try:p
     
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  12. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    So, Terradons and Krox were the big winners after all it seems. Specially when you also consider their point reductions.
     
  13. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    well teradons lost all their combat stats it's now MW or go home.
    krox got good(represent!) and yes the drop in points is what did it. that and the skink buff that i didn't factor in.
    themain thing about those 2 that makes them good is they don't need to be buffed a lot of our units you have to build your army around them but salamanders krox teradons they can just go in to fill points
     
  14. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Yep, Skink units across the board are less reliant on their synergies, yet they have more synergies that are easier to get. Those factors combined really add up. Ripperdactyls being able to boost from CP farm might make them better than they were on base warscroll after the point reduction. Losing Shadow strike and mass rerolling is huge though.
     
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  15. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    loosing "swooping dive" HURT!!!
     
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  16. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Wish we had rend -1 to make up for it. With no rend we can really only go after other glass cannons (which will be harder without 3" SS) or rely on mass attacks. And mass attacks are gonna be harder to stick without those rerolls.
     
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  17. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    So is it any worth in fielding 6 ripperdactyls? I don't want the guys to be shelved for next 5 years!

    I also don't get why kroxigors are suddenly so much better. Their stats didn't improve and they don't have much synergies. Can someone explain me, please?
     
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  18. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    the skink buff whent from reroll 1s to wound to +1 to hit so when neer a skink unit (half our army) 3 krox deal almost as much damage as a buffed block of 20 warriors and they don't need command points to pull it off. they move 8 and don't need heros they are a great mobile hammer
     
  19. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    So a unit of 6 will hit as good as 40-men block of saurus and needs only a skink hero nearby to give +1 to hit and reroll 1's? Wow, I suddenly love mini's and lore. Strange.
     
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  20. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    doesn't even need to be a skink hero you can use stegadons or salamanders to as they all have the skink key word. so krox make great body guards for your stuff
     
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