Discussion Memories and the Dead

[Carnikang]

I have a question concerning the Seraphon, their past selves, and the Slann. It's assumed that the Slann call on the spirits or gestalt memory of their past servants, and bring them to life to fight. For ever how short of a time their new lives are, do the new Lizards truly remember who they once were? And if they do, would they know of their own names, or would they refer to themselves as something other than their name, if they knew they were a memory?

For instance Gor-Rok, if he was brought back as 'any' sunblood, would he know himself as Gor-Rok, but know he is not truly himself? If he survived longer, would he take a suffix or other addition to his name to designate that?
"One who was Gor-Rock" (For what ever Go-Rok translates too), or maybe "One who bears the memory of Gor-Rok"?

I'm curious to know what others think. It's something I have thought about for some time. Mostly because I was going to start naming my characters for a campaign that is upcoming at my FLGS, and I want them to be somewhat Authentic, using the High Saurian wording/names.

 

[Scalenex]

Western mysticism and philosophy, and to a lesser extant non-Western folklore ascribes great power to one's name (or Name). I have trouble imagining Slann being able to recreate any Seraphon from memories without a name for the individuals. That's just my opinion. If a story purpose is served by making names less important or equally important but more fluid, do that instead.

 

[airjamy]

Western mysticism and philosophy, and to a lesser extant non-Western folklore ascribes great power to one's name (or Name). I have trouble imagining Slann being able to recreate any Seraphon from memories without a name for the individuals. That's just my opinion. If a story purpose is served by making names less important or equally important but more fluid, do that instead.

I feel that they would use the old names with an additional designation to honor the ancestors and to give some information on the subject while naming him. It also seems to fit with the mythology our lizards were based on, a name like Mazdamundi-Tza ( if he was dead, with Tza as an added word to clarify that) sounds really quite Incan-ny to me, but that is based purely on my intuition.

 

[Wolfwerty33]

I'll say they'll keep their names, but my fallback position would be that they call themselves something new (as they have a new body and existance) with a title to honour their old names.

 

[Bowser]

I think that there would be the same name with a designation. Gor-Rok the Sunblooded. There is no reason though that the slann wouldn't make say an oldblood from the old world as a sunblood in the new, or an eternity warden. Or both based on the needs. If you read @Scalenex stories, they reuse a name, Huan-kai shows up in several generations sometimes a saurus sometimes a skink. So keeping the name and adding a designation or shortening it might make sense. This version is Huan-kai the Protector, or Huan the sun blooded.

 

[Carnikang]

Entirely true @Bowser

I was thinking much the same for a series of stories I would write at some point. I wanted a bit of impute on what others thought concerning how a newly 'reborn' Seraphon would know itself and how other Seraphon might refer to it formally.
Again another wonder, would they be able to communicate with other races now? As they are made of the gestalt will of the Slann, of pure Starblood and are 'Order Daemons' would they have the gift of tongues?

 

[Bowser]

Entirely true @Bowser

I was thinking much the same for a series of stories I would write at some point. I wanted a bit of impute on what others thought concerning how a newly 'reborn' Seraphon would know itself and how other Seraphon might refer to it formally.
Again another wonder, would they be able to communicate with other races now? As they are made of the gestalt will of the Slann, of pure Starblood and are 'Order Daemons' would they have the gift of tongues?

I suppose communication depends on if the slann is feeling nostalgic, or testing mortals. Otherwise you could justify having communication between any race and the seraphon.

 

[Warden]

Question.

Do the "memory lizards" still exist when they go back to whatever dimension the slann live in?

I understand that in the new lore, the Slann are the only corporeal beings that still exist from the old Lizardmen. And they live on the remains of the ancient temple-city-ships that float around above the galactic plane, somewhere between all the living realms of magic.

So to rephrase my question, when the Slann send their memory-minions out into the realms, the appear in a sparkling cloud of star-power to smite the Slann's enemies, then disappear. What happens when they disappear? Do the corporeal forms of the memories cease to exist, or are they inter-dimensionally teleported back to the Slann's star dimension, to like and work and operate the Slann's ships as beings made of the same material as stars? Or do the Slann just sit in their dusty temple-city-ships all day, devoid of contact with any lifeforms, whether physical or star-forged, and just ponder away the centuries until the next time they decide to take action in the physical plane?

I feel this would go a long way to me figuring out how the reimaged-lizardmen would be named. If they exist as star-beings in the Slann dimension, as living-life-forms-made-of-stars, I could see them forming their own culture as star-creatures, maybe even coming up in new names reminiscent of the older names their ancient physical-ancestor culture had, but new and changed to fit their evolved circumstances.

Otherwise, if they are just simply the mind-fodder of the hermit space-faring Slann, they would strike me as being much more robotic, and potentially dull . The Slann are powerful, but would they really take the time to give their memories names, thoughts, or other facets of culture when they have the entire galaxy of magical troubles to worry about? Why bother giving your constructs names, if they have as so little time to even exist? If anything, in this case they would probably just be called whatever names the Slann remember from the Ancient World, names they remember, but the rank-and-file troops would just be generic construct to fill out the size of their forces.

Hope that rambling made sense.

 

[Carnikang]

It did, and it is thouht invoking. At least for myself, and touches on afewthings I have been ponderin on for a no now. I would love to discuss is now, but work has me, a more detailed response will come when I am home.

 

[Carnikang]

Let me see. As there are many interpretations of Death and the End Times for the many races, what was death and DEATH for the First? Persnally, I would say that when one died, they went to the Old Ones Side or Tlaziloqtexa'an*. With the souls of all the dead lizards that were not devoured, ripped apart, or completely obliterated outside of Time and Space with their one true Lords and Masters, that leaves them as their base selves. One could assume they have some consciousness, and know what/who they are after Life.

The Slann in High Azyr (where they dwell above Sigmar and his Cities amid jungles made from their own memories to bring back the old beasts of war) draw upon these conscious beings and memory clusters (Stars perhaps?) and coalesce them into the forms of what they once were. They can shape and give them features, even change their 'mode' of operation, but they are building around a core star and a core memory that they plucked from outside Time and Space.

How they come into being though, is something of a matter of personal preference to the Slann. Some might simply will them into existence with a small pop, others a swirling mass of stardust and such, while a few might even take a page from Sigmar's book and have them be born in radiant beams of pure Light. Much the same when they die (though the exploding into a furious blaze of starlight and cleansing Choas and corruption is a good default). They return to Tlaziloqtexa'an, where they may remember their life in the Realms, on top of their old memories. Those that do not die in battle might go back to High Azyr to serve the Slann in more mundane tasks, or possibly explore their new found existence (with possibly a bit more 'being' to them than robotic servants of the Old Ones).

I hope that might help, though this is all from my own perspective.
~Cheers



*Referenced in our own High Saurian thread here http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/high-saurian.8006/

 

[Bowser]

I like to think that the slann doesn't just put away his toys when he is done, but either keeps them training, ready to protect their plane if existence from chaos. Leading their life, forming the Azurute clubs and fire lances, talking plans with priests and seers, even as an extension of himself. It's still talking to itself, but, the other side of the conversation has a form. I also like to think that the slann would put them ethereally into the plane that they olan to protect. Know the terrain, and the people they are fighting and protecting. Unseen until the battle starts.