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AoS Mournghul

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by ljwylde, Mar 1, 2017.

  1. ljwylde
    Saurus

    ljwylde Member

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    Hey everyone, I have been having trouble dealing with my mate's flesher courts army that has been tearing it up lately. Specifically, I have trouble dealing with the ten wound /3+ save that Ignores rend/ 4+ against mortal wounds monstrosity that they call the mournghul. Any tips on how to deal with this? I'd like to keep it pure seraphon.
     
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  2. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    What have you used so far?
     
  3. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning Staff Member

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    Aren't that basically the same values as a Bastiladon that has a better move, flies, and heals?
    Holy ****! Even at its price (400 points) it is pretty good. I'd even say overpowered.
    I'd probably try and flood it with attacks. Everything shoot at it. 40 fully buffed Skinks (Skink Chief, Astrolith Bearer for re-rolls) and a Bastiladon could cause enough wounds maybe.
     
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  4. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    Tie it up with something then hit it with a Bastiladon and some rippers, co-ordinate your attacks and hit it hard and fast, I would be tempted to use Knights back up by a scar vet on cold one, Firelance for added punch maybe.
     
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  5. Bowser
    Slann

    Bowser Third Spawning

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    Yep, you pretty much need to figure out how to give it 30-40 wounds a turn. A shadowstrike and a Bastiladon, and some dice luck should do it.
     
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  6. Seraphage
    Stegadon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    I would try to swarm him with cheap, non rend attacks and let the statistics do their job :p
     
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  7. ljwylde
    Saurus

    ljwylde Member

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    Thanks guys, I'll take your advice; maybe the 40 Saurus block to swarm. Use Sunblood for rerolling and Scar vet's command ability for extra attacks on a 6. That could increase to extra attacks on a 5+ with the hurricanum come to think of it... about 64 wounds caused if I have done my maths right. That is enough to break through even a 2+save when it is shielded. Sounds like a plan
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  8. Joshua Horchler
    Troglodon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    This isn't a super efficient way, but one way to get a ton of attacks/wounds is through a beefy Ripperdactyl unit.

    6 Rippers in Shadowstrike 280 points for the unit:

    x6 Moonstone Warspears
    - hitting on 4+ with re-roll, wounding on 3+ with re-roll (add 1 to wound from formation) = average of 4 wounds
    x18 Slashing Claws - hitting on 3+ with re-roll, wounding on 2+ with re-roll (add 1 to wound from formation) = average of 16 wounds
    x18 Vicious Beak (next to toad) - hitting on 4+ with re-roll, wounding on 2+ with re-roll (add 1 to wound from formation) + an average of 14 more hits from Voracious Appetite = average of 21 wounds
    4+16+21 = 41 Wounds on average at "-" Rend

    With a little hot rolling you could be seeing closer to 50.

    My preferred method is to tie up units like that. 400 points is a lot, so if you can find ways to slow it down, you can probably prevent itself from making back its points. I really like a buffed 40 man block of Warriors. I think infantry blocks are really under valued right now in AoS. I haven't played with a block like that, but I could see it doing well, especially buffed by our leaders.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
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  9. Seraphage
    Stegadon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    My personal experience with 40man block so far : Needs to be practiced. As a new player I responded pretty well into playing the game generall, untill the time I used a 40man block. It must be my biggest failure as a new strategist so far. Bad placement / made my general not fight for 2 rounds due to block and got tied up badly without really making it worth it although I invested quite a LOT on it : Rerollable all hits, rerollable all saves, Sunclaw starhost. Did a hell lot of wounds but in the long run I am 200% positive that I only utilized about 50% of the units' strength :(

    Another comment : our 5+ save is bad. Wish it was 4+ without ignore rend but since it is not the case : Next time I am trying this with a mystic shield on. While I 'm gonna miss it to some really important unit of ours, 5+ even rerollable due to priest, is just bad. + the -2 rend gives no saves to our horde while the 4+ without rerolls can still have a chance to save some of their models. So this is definitely something to keep in mind in my opinion.

    By the way I would like the opinion of the most experienced players on this. Wanted to debate this to my battlerep but as I am pressured these days it will take me sometime before I do so, so I ll just pose the question now ! :)
     
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  10. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    NONONONONONONO.
    Our block of saurus are pathetically slow, you simply cannot charge with them a thing that flies and move at 12".
    And you don't want to send blocks of infantry in melee with it. No, i don't know what you are thinking, but not even then.
    The math may be on your side, but a FEC player won't ever send its mourngul in combat with a slow horde, letting the horde strike first.

    The thing heals d3 wounds for each model it kills in any combat phase. And gives you a -1 to hit it within 6" from it (and that's because we have bravery 10, otherwise we would suffer a -2).

    I suggest to soften it with some barrage of shooting (razordon) and then pop and charge it with a sufficient number of Rippers.

    And this, hoping that a Death wizard is not casting mystic shield on it, and that the ghoul King on terrorgheist is not near it, granting it also a ward save 5+ for each wound it takes. Or that you are not facing 2 mourngul (I do in our local shop).

    The Mourngul is one of the most overpowered monsters in the game.
     
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  11. Joshua Horchler
    Troglodon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    A block of infantry can still work. It depends on your list. If the other part of your list is made up of fast carnosaurs and deepstriking Rippers, you're probably right and it wouldn't work well. If you have a more defensive list,you can control the middle of the board and bubble wrap your important units. It's not hard to control a space on the board with 40 bodies.

    I agree it's tough to make 40 units work against a single model, but if you are trying slow it down and screen, than 40 man units can work. You have to keep in mind your armies play style. I wouldn't be so quick to say it wouldn't work. You have to play smart and use the fact that 40 models can cover a lot of the board in a lot of different ways. Play to the mission and don't expect to get a perfect charge with 30 models in range to hit, but play to the units strength.
     
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  12. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Yes, I won't deny that: I agree that a 40 saurus' horde can be truly devastating, especially with the support of an oldblood and a sprinkle of magic.
    You'll also have a nice battlefield control with such a large group, however here we're talking about a tactic to kill a specific model, which requires an optimization of the number of attacks, and this is hard to obtain if the mourngul, faster than you, decides the point of attack and you can count only on pile-in.
     
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  13. Joshua Horchler
    Troglodon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    True and good points. I would just say that "dealing" with a unit does not always mean you have to kill it. Sometimes slowing it down, making it tough for your opponent to maximize its power, and playing the board and mission is just as good or better than fighting. We are a slightly underpowered army, so you will find games when you have to concede certain things to your opponent and play the mission/map. Sometimes you can pull out a W and sometimes a big, unkillable monster may eat you :)

    Lets all hope GW did their homework on the General's Handbook 2 and maybe we will see some balancing. I have tempered expectations. Less popular/older armies in 40k take a really long time to see some love. But, GW has been improving in my eyes, so who knows.
     
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  14. Joshua Horchler
    Troglodon

    Joshua Horchler Well-Known Member

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    Thinking about it, if you are playing with some more defensive units, a Celestial Hurricanum could really help. It does two things, it can put some mortal wounds on it, and negate the negative to hit aura.

    Also, don't forget how useful the spell summon starlight can be against expensive models/units.

    "The thing heals d3 wounds for each model it kills in any combat phase." - That is also incorrect. In heals after it slays any models in the combat phase. It only heals once per combat.
     
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  15. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Ah, yes, I stand corrected.
     
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  16. Seraphage
    Stegadon

    Seraphage Well-Known Member

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    I am still looking forward to your advice ! Sorry for the spam
     
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  17. InfamousBeany
    Cold One

    InfamousBeany Well-Known Member

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    Step 1- get 40 skinks.
    Step 2- Get a Skink Chief
    Step 3- Be in a Shadowtrike Starhost (with Cham skinks is preferable)
    Step 4- Have a Stegadon
    Step 5- Move 2D6 +8" on your first turn and buff your skinks with the chief
    Step 6- Literally bury the Mourngul (again?) with Javelins/Boltspitters
    Step 7- Throw a Ripper or two at it if needed
    Step 8- Refer to @Crowsfoot 's tag

    You absolutely have the right idea of going for sheer volume of attacks against this thing, but do bear in mind that you want to burst it down rather than tie it up- alpha strikes with the shadowstrike are great for this.
     
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  18. scubrat
    Temple Guard

    scubrat Well-Known Member

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    With the stegadon's skink alpha you could move one of those units another +d6"
     
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  19. TheSkeptic
    Chameleon Skink

    TheSkeptic Active Member

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    I dunno, bury it in boltsplitter attacks and then throw a dread saurian at it? The Saurian basically has preferred enemy: Monster, which the mourngul counts as, yes? In peak form, and with the mourngul already injured, I expect that'd be enough to drop it. If not, then send a unit of buffed up ripperdactyls at it. I expect a dread saurian could survive a round of combat with it at the bare minimum to keep it pinned down for them.
     
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  20. LordRibbit
    Temple Guard

    LordRibbit Well-Known Member

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    Last game I played against them I took one down with a double carnosaur attack in a bloodclaw starhost, game them both 2 extra jaw attacks and re-rolling hits from my sunblood just about did it....just
     
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