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8th Ed. New Lizardman army book and info

Book pre-ordered. Just the mundane one as it should be with me by Wednesday at the earliest, and Thursday at the latest through my local independent. Which means you guys can bet your asses I'll be on here Thursday evening answering all your questions, if someone hasn't got it first :D

Caneghem said:
rychek said:
The lack of T on the rippers and terradons makes me very, very sad. It is deal breakingly bad for me.
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They are going to be glass cannon type units, requiring finesse much like the current Terradons do. You'll have to learn to size up your opponent before the game and pick the perfect target for the rippers and place your bloat toad there. They are definite medium cav. I think they are weighing in at around 40 points per model (last I saw) so two units will serve you pretty well for hunting warmachines, chaff, and maybe mage bunker units. They most definitely should NOT take on mainline fighting duties like the typical monstrous cav. You'll need to hold them near your Ld bubble due to frenzy early on, adding another layer of consideration.

This is actually the kind of unit I really love to be honest.
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I would like them too, except traditionally a glass cannon gets in, does their damage, and then gets out again or dies. Witch Elves are a classic example of this: no saves to speak of, but a ton of damage coming at you with re-rolls on I6. If they mop up, they'll not take any damage - if they spoon their attacks, they are likely to break and flee. Much of the High Elf army - Swordmasters and White Lions especially - fall into this role, which they do well through - again - high Initiative.

Sadly, at only T3 and 4+, Rippers aren't going to survive long enough to deal all their damage - especially given that nearly everything in this game is I3 or better. So you are already looking at a large unit, or adding magical support. To serve in the glass cannon role they would be really worthwhile going I4 or T4 or 3+ AS.

The roles that you identified are all served better by Skirmishing Skinks, Terradons or Chameleon Skinks, who do the same jobs but better (and no doubt cheaper and without as much risk, due to the Frenzy). Failing that, a lone Skink Chief on a Ripper with some cheap magic items could probably do just as well.

Speaking of which, the Frenzy means that Rippers can't even perform the usual chaff roles of baiting and fleeing.

I really hope that somebody does try them out and see if they can work. Right now I would think two units of 4 (coming in at 160 a peice) or a big unit of 6 (at 240) could be interesting, but I just don't see them working well for me. I would love to be proved wrong though!

EDIT: I haven't considered the psychological factor of two units. Drop their bloat toads into two priority targets, and you could see some cagey effect on the part of your opponent. It depends on whether there are restrictions for where you place them, though.
 
They do seem to have 3+ armour saves, but I agree on the ridiculously glass and not enough cannon point.
 
I'll wait to see their overall rules before pronouncing judgement, but I don't think they necessarily fill the same role as chameleon skinks. I'll still find room for the awesome warmachine hunting chameleon skinks (assuming they are the same as before).
 
Caneghem said:
rychek said:
The lack of T on the rippers and terradons makes me very, very sad. It is deal breakingly bad for me.
Click to expand...

They are going to be glass cannon type units, requiring finesse much like the current Terradons do. You'll have to learn to size up your opponent before the game and pick the perfect target for the rippers and place your bloat toad there. They are definite medium cav. I think they are weighing in at around 40 points per model (last I saw) so two units will serve you pretty well for hunting warmachines, chaff, and maybe mage bunker units. They most definitely should NOT take on mainline fighting duties like the typical monstrous cav. You'll need to hold them near your Ld bubble due to frenzy early on, adding another layer of consideration.

This is actually the kind of unit I really love to be honest.
Click to expand...

I don't currently have any terradons, so I've never used them. However, I have a hard time spending the kind of cash GW wants for their fliers when they are nothing more than over glorified Elves with wings (with an even squishier skink on it's back). It's entirely possible rippers will be awesome once their rules are taken into account, but I'm not counting on it. However, I will gladly buy some if they turn out to be worth it.
 
Oh agreed, there may be something that can redeem them. I mean the 40 points isn't too much if you wanted some MSU support. They may still find a place in my army as well as they pump out a lot of armour peircing attacks. It depends on the range of the Solar Engine buff - if it can reach far enough to get them whilst they are roaming around, at I4 they may improve.
 
GCPD said:
Oh agreed, there may be something that can redeem them. I mean the 40 points isn't too much if you wanted some MSU support. They may still find a place in my army as well as they pump out a lot of armour peircing attacks. It depends on the range of the Solar Engine buff - if it can reach far enough to get them whilst they are roaming around, at I4 they may improve.
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Against their target unit they'll be getting quite a bit of bonus in the form of rerolls and extra attacks, and they'll also have killing blow on top of things. I'm thinking... 120 point unit that can punch above its weight against a specific enemy unit that I get to choose. Maybe it's a unit of knights, or a unit that will be an obvious character bunker. If my 120 point unit can take down a single character or a few knights, they've probably done their job. If the enemy is shooting at the 120 point unit, then odds are they are not shooting at something much more important to the army. As someone has already pointed out, they are a likely target for Hand of Glory's init buff (or possibly solar engine) on the turn they charge, meaning they need to be within 18 of the Slann/Skink High Priest. Either that or you pick softer targets and run 4 of them. I really see these shining as a way to target bunker type units and force enemy characters to flee elsewhere and be more vulnerable.

Also I'm not sure on a couple things... do we know if they will have the drop rocks and fire leech attack? This little added bit of utility could push them over the top in my book. I am absolutely loving the idea of a flaming attack in the shooting phase that can remove regeneration from monsters, that can then be followed up by clouds of skink darts.

EDIT: These guys will also be fodder for Walk Between Worlds. Yes, an extra 20 inch move will put them out of the Leadership bubble, but if next turn they are in position to charge what you wanted anyway, who cares?
 
Wow, that new Kroq-Gar artwork is terrible compared to the old one...
 
I think the Trogladon head looks a lot better then the Carnosaur head. The carno one looks too small for it's body.
 
So the guy at my local store said that the Ark of Sotek definitely creates new Swarms as well as some combat bonus ( x amount of poisonous attacks I imagine), and the Solar Engine is buff bubble and bound spell.
I know this has already been stated, but predatory fighters rule does come on top of the standard number of attacks: double confirmation!

Still can't decide on the Carnosaur head- I get that it's somewhat snake-like, but it just looks too podgy. I think it's small eyes make it a little to much like a cross between a T-rex and Bruce Bogtrotter. Still, it may be just the online/WD paints that push that impression. I'm unlikely to get it anytime soon: I just want to read the Rulebook!!
 
A small calculation on the rippers: on the unit they charge, lets say ws3 t3 unit that's been marked, 4-6 attacks per ripper, unit of three has something between 12-18 attacks plus predatory fighter (plus stomp if they're monstrous cav).

12 attacks, about 9 hits, about 6 wounds.
15 attacks, about 11 hits, about 7-8 wounds
18 attacks, about 13 hits, about 8-9 wounds

then there are the extra possible that skinks does some damage, but thats not so important. The point is that you'r getting 9-13 dice rolls to get the killing blow, which is quite good in my opinion. This could hurt quite a lot of cavalry units, that can't get many hits if they get charged to the flank.

They're quite glasscannon, but I think we can find some good use for them ;)
 
Sorry if this has been noticed but I'm on my phone and can't read all pages but Sally's and razordons are now montorous beasts instead of war beasts so get stomp attacks
 
I know a lot of people are down on the Carnosaur not having a ward save, but what about if the EOTG keeps its ability to have a 12" bubble with the 5+ ward save. I know this is all speculation but if you can take a stegadon with EOTG as a rare, that opens up all those hero points for a Carnosaur, so maybe its possible to take a couple Carnosaurs run it across the board with the EOTG for 5+ ward and charmed shield to discount firt hit, and then the carnosaurs and stegadon tear things up (also if the EOTG keeps the burning alignment, you can turn that on once you get into CC). Also if the 2 upgrades for stegadons make them more choppy this would also help. Again this is all speculation, who knows if they changed the EOTG.
 
Nice! I always thought that they should get those. I would bet that they can no longer march and shoot (sallies). Razordons never could.
 
I would be very surprised if they could. I expect the mortar double nerf treatment: more expensive and worse :(

So far one of those is true, though its not that much more expensive so who knows.
 
Sacred Spawning would be great, add a little variety to are limited core. Saurus and Skinks are both awesome choices, but it's going to sucks not having anything else for more variety. All the special and rare choices however are going to be insane!!!

All and all very happy with everything, even if Sacred Spawning is not there. Very excited! :D
 
forlustria said:
Sorry if this has been noticed but I'm on my phone and can't read all pages but Sally's and razordons are now montorous beasts instead of war beasts so get stomp attacks
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With access now to Hand of Glory, I'd absolutely love to field a unit of 3 razordons, buff up that ballistic skill, and unleash hell. They're getting cheaper too.. hmm.
 
In the current book we can take the EotG and the Carno in one list, and its is a bad idea. Most likely the rules for them didn't change, and points stayed similar, then why would taking more of them be suddenly a good idea .

I'll wait with the purchases and see the rules. I really don't like the current direction that GW sculpts are going, I think the new models suck incredibly bad, a little better then the WoC releases, but still pretty bad, I mean sculpts like this were okay in the 90's. GW used to stand for awesome minis, now we have terrible models and even worse rules, compared to other games. I'm really disappointing in the releases, I just hope I'm wrong :shifty:. I loved winning tourneys with my lizzies.
 
KillerK said:
In the current book we can take the EotG and the Carno in one list, and its is a bad idea. Most likely the rules for them didn't change, and points stayed similar, then why would taking more of them be suddenly a good idea .
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I've always had great success with that pairing! Lots of fun. It'll be even better with the option of a different lore on my skink!
 
Whenever I run he EOTG against a shooty army, I always end up with 2nd turn and a lot less monsters to protect by my turn :-/
 
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