8th Ed. New Lizardman army book and info

""Apparently the Troglodon isn't great,
" 3 attacks, toughness & strength 5, 4+ save, one use only roar which makes PF work on a 5+ 100 sslaves. " (Of course, we don't know what the diving rod option and skink oracle do yet, so this may still be good) The spitting attack is SD6 shots at S5 range 18", quick to fire, multiple wounds D3 and at BS3 (possibly also poisoned? based on description) "

SD6 shots?? Did this mean 2d6? Even if the model fires off D6 shots, then it is probably worth it. Always remember we can now boost ballistic skill. If this is also poisoned or negates armor, then this will finally justify the points cost of the model. Another tool to bring down armored multi-wound models. The PF boosting roar is just a bit of icing, seems that spitting attack is the main point of the unit.

 

So saurus cav become 6 attack models once frenzy is popped with the Horn of Kygor (wonder if this is one use only?) Now imagine combining that with the trog's roar. A unit of 5 CoC has 30 attacks with frenzy, 5+ PF boosts them to 40 on average! The cool thing is, neither of these effects are spells, so you can count on them going off when you choose. On the turn you plan on doing all this, just make sure to spam the CoC with buff spells to maximize the output. Oh, and it wouldn't hurt to charge a swarm in there too, might as well add poison. Most likely the best thing to cast at them will be Wildform. Or if they have the AP banner, they don't need buffing much at all to really cut through some troops.

Cold One Cav, just got good..? Yeesh, so much back and forth with these rumors. I really ought to just stay away till the book is my hands.

 

Re: New Lizardmen Rumours
Only thing else different about Kroq Gar is if Slain- Grymloq auto passes and gets Frenzy and never loses. Nothing happens if Grymloq dies.
Kroak- Can never have his wizard lv reduced to below 1. Lv.4 and knows Deliverance of Itza which he can cast multiple times at different ranges, if he forgets it, has it lost, stolen or swapped then he auto relearns it and the other wizard loses it. It targets all enemies within 12 and does 2D6 S4 hits unless the target is Daemonic, Undead, or Nehekharan Undead then it is 3D6. Has a 3+ Ward. Gives Temple Guard that he joins Unbreakable. -1 to hit him or any unit he joins. on a 2+ he doesn't take a miscast and instead takes a S6 hit and loses D6 power dice, if used through a Vassal and miscasts then the vassal takes a S6 hit as well. BS reduced to 1. no other changes.
Mazdamundi is Lv. 4 and can take any basic lore or high magic and is a lore master for whichever he chooses. is Stubborn. Has Becalming, Harmonic, Soul of Stone, and Transcendent healing. His weapon is no longer S5 but if he hits a model with magic items then on a D6 roll of 6 he destroys all their magic items. Sunburst Standard is a BSB Once per game at the beginning of enemy shooting phase enemies that target him and units within 12 of him suffer a -1 to hit them. Zlaaq has 3+ sacly skin. rest of them coming.

 

Gor-Rok gets T6, gains immune to psychology and predatory fighter. Resilient lets him only take 1 wound against Killing blow, heroic killing blow, and mulitple wounds on a 2+. His Mace allows him to re-roll failed to hit rolls and he earns extra attacks from PF on 5s and 6s. His Shield gives him +2 to armor save and if charged- enemy models in base contact with you take dangerous terrain at -1.
Chakax is unchanged except he destroys random magic items on a 5+.
Tehenhauin is a Lv3 Beasts wizard, Poisoned attacks against him must always roll to wound. He upgrades all skinks and skink riders to have hatred to skaven for half a slave per model. has acane vassal. His tide of serpents is D6 at WS2 and S2 with poisoned attacks. He makes swarms that he joins unbreable and ignore their Squish! rule.

 

Tetto'Eko- Arcane Vassal and Scaly Skin 6+ are new. Has a 5+ Ward save. Can be placed in unit of Skinks with Kroxigor. Doesn't count as on "foot" and re-rolls dangerous terrain like the slann. Before Vanguard moves he gives D3 units Vanguard. Can still re-roll the comet to see when it hits, Still loremaster of Heavens at LV 2. Herald of Cosmic events- roll a D6 at the start of your magic phase and on a 1 all your wizards must re-roll 6s when casting spells, on a 2+ all your wizards re-roll 1s.
Also Aquatic now includes Marshes.
TikTaq'To- Ambushers, Forest Strider, Fear, Scaly Skin 6+, Flying Cavalry and all Terradons/RipperDactyls are Monstrous Cavalry. He can upgrade a unit of Terradon riders to become ambushers at a cost of 1 Skink per model. Blade of Ancient Skies- Ignores Armor saves, +1 bonus to hit against models with the Fly rule. Mask of Heavens- All Terradons in his unit use his WS. enemies suffer -1 to hit for shooting him or his unit.
Oxyotl- Master Predator- if he did not move then shots made from the golden blowpipe of P'Toohee auto wound on a to hit roll of 5+. P'Toohee- range 12 S3 poisoned with multi shots (3).

 

Thanks Gator. Sounds like the fixed most of what prevented me from running Kroak occasionally. Gor-rok sounds pretty good also. Of course, without the points costs to go with them it is kinda hard to put it all in perspective but generally I'm looking forward to the specials cause with the right points costs they might all be worth taking.

Lol.....P'Toohee....wow.

 

Disciplines in order from cheapest to highest:
Reservoir of Eldritch Energy- Can save 1 unused dispel die to use for the next magic phase on a D6 roll of 2+ ( can't go beyond the pool limit.)
Soul of Stone- When rolling a miscast you can add or subtract 1 from the result instead of accepting the original result(min. 2 and max. 12 on the table.)
Becalming Cogitation- re-rolls first failed dispel attempt in each magic phase.
Wandering Deliberations- Knows all basic lore signature spells ( can't be used with the Lore Master of High Magic one.)
Harmonic Convergence- Slann rolls 2 additional dice whenever he attempts to channel power or dispel dice.
The Harrowing Scrutiny- Terror
Transcendent Healing- 40K Regeneration
Unfathomable Presence- Roll a D3 at the start of enemy magic phase, gains Magic resistance (X) until end of turn where X is equal to the D3 result.
Focus of Mystery- Lore Master for High Magic
Higher State of Consiciousness- Ethereal and Unstable but can't join units.

 

Gor-Rok looks sweet, also did I read that right? Grymloq get's Kroq-Gar's ward save?

General on carnosaur (kroq-gar) might not be so bad, as long as the price isn't ridiculous.

 

"Tehenhauin is a Lv3 Beasts wizard, Poisoned attacks against him must always roll to wound. He upgrades all skinks and skink riders to have hatred to skaven for half a slave per model. has acane vassal. His tide of serpents is D6 at WS2 and S2 with poisoned attacks. He makes swarms that he joins unbreable and ignore their Squish! rule."

Looks like my Skink Chief with scythe and beating heart is going to find himself a new role with my snake swarms

 

so according to warseer.. PF wont work on supporting attacks. Since the rulebook says you can only ever make 1 supporting attack. ie that extra attack shouldnt be any different than having an extra attack on the profile..

Wich is stupid if thats the case IMO

 

I read the posted text three times. The issue as to whether PF allows extra attacks for supporting attacks is not clear either way. It may be a classic dice off and require an FAQ. It probably is one of this issue where the issue never came up or the designar had a specific intent/understanding and never thought to clarify the issue. It reads like intent was for all attacks, otherwise it would make no sense with Krox in the second rank of a skrox unit having PF.

Soeaking of that, if one can direct close combat attacks at the Krox in the second rank of the skrox unit, would it make sense in some instances to reform to put the Krox in the front rank so as to protect the skinks from stomps and thunderstomps and to max combat res given the Krox have better T and AS up front and get stomps from the Krox? The skinks just give you ranks and shooting from second rank and supporting attacks in that format. You still apparently get the randomized shooting hits rule wth skrox units. For example, a Skrox unit against an ironguts bus where the ironguts strike last anyway. You could run 3 Krox and 24 skinks and gain fpour ranks of skinks (six wide) and six skrox ranks total (assuming Krox count as two ranks). LD 7 on the Krox and the likelihood of steadfast and ability to run in core makes this unit make sense.

 

Seems like GW really screwed the pooch on this one.........It just seems like our book was made to FAQ the "cheesy" aspects of our stuff that was slightly "OP" I guess we won't see the damage till the book officially drops. Just seems like nothing decent was placed in to make up for the losses I don't know about you guys but no general Loremaster on a friggin 300pt wizard blows IMO high magic is cool but not that great....

 

For PF if the wording is what was posted on warseer where it says that "Whenever a model with this special rule rolls a 6 to hit in close combat, it immediately makes another attack; roll to hit and to wound as normal" leads me to believe that it is all models including those in the second rank. Since it does not say models in base contact with an enemy or models in the first rank, I don't see why this can't be used for supporting attacks as well, since the big rule book does say army specific "advanced" rules overrule the "basic" rules of the big rule book.

 

My son plays primarily lizardmen in GTs and he is quite happy with the book relative to what could have been done. He wins or places in general in major GTs quite often. They took away the OP stuff that got complaints and negative sports and comp scores in GTs like cupped hands, old becalming, and rumination, but they really gave LM a lot of stuff to compensate. We knew they'd nerf sallies but only a slight point cost increase and took away march and shoot but gave you S4 spout flames and cut the price of extra skinks. Many of the negative changes were quite predictable really given what we've seen with the other 8th ed books.

They made cheaper and more potent: Temple Guard (PF and -1ss and assured look out sir for slann), saurus characters (PF and -2.5ss), Krox (PF, +1S, and -2.5ss), CoC (still probably over-priced but more attacks and PF rule and cheaper even with spears), swarms (-5ss and poison to units in cc), and stegs. You now get all 3 elements of EOTG (6+ ward but always and not just 12"+ range, +1 to cast chosen lore, and bound spell burning alignment) on a cheaper steg in the rare slot. They gave skink priests access to beasts and allow slanns to cast DD and MMs through the priests. They also repointed the special characters to actually make some of interest (still probably not worth playing in a max competitive list.).

I think that you will find that the bastiladon is under-rated with its two free howday options simply because it does not cost that much for the wounds and toughness and AS and has a lot of options.

A 300 point lvl 4 wizard with 5 wounds and T4 and a 4+ innate ward save and access to 9 lores plus access to a bunch of disciplines and magic items, can be a BSB, can carry a magic banner and be the general, can get a free look out sir and hide in a TG unit and cast MMs and DD spells through a skink priest, and cold-blooded. A high elf archmage at lvl 4 with T3 and 3 wounds and a 4+ ward costs only 35 points less. Jeez. There is no way that slann is overcosted!

I play in relatively uncomped GTs (sports scores and light comp adjustment is the most we see to regulate lists) and, despite 8th ed being relatively balanced, LM armies have consistently been top tier for three years now in terms of at the top or near the top in average battle points in all of the major regoinal GTs with no hard comp restircitions.in the US.
Daemons is the only "bad" book in 8th ed mainly due to silly randomness and rules poorly written and poor inteernal ballance but is still competitive in some builds.
The LM book looks pretty well considered (given GW profit motives and issues with internal balance) to me.

One of the only armies left with OP items (sac dagger, hydras, pendant) is the dark elf army and they're about to fix that army too in a few months but I bet it will still be competitive and playable., just without some annoying majic items and with their ponts costs fixed, hydras will cost more and RBTs will cost less.
Skaven has some issues with its book in terms of OP in 8th ed, but it doesn't seem to clearly dominate in non-comped GTs, despite stuff like hellpits, warp cannons, gutter runners, and steadfast slaves.

 

The way I'm seeing it, Lizardmen figure to be a hammer + anvil army going forward, with Saurus and Temple Guard forming the bulk of the army (not sold on the current Skinkrox, and I know I'm not alone on that front) and holding foes up thanks to their solid defense, with Stegadons, Cold One Cavalry, or independent units of Kroxigors (oh yeah, I went there) making up the hammers. That said, given all of those things, I don't see where the Bastiladon fits in points-wise (I guess he doesn't). Throw in a Slann with Life or Light and I still like that army, even if it sounds like a bit of a plodder.

Here's a question I haven't seen an answer for - any word on Chameleon Skinks seeing any change (aside from the Skink-wide -1 Ld)? Because those still figure to be pretty important going forward IMO.

 

In all honesty I am excited with all the new big dinos, It is more the type of list I want to run. I am sad though that the Trog does not have a breath weapon, but then again that is covered with salamanders. Definetly going to be that guy who runs 3 Carnos for shits and giggles. Will they die sure but it will be fun and satisfying when they eat lots of yummy fleshlings.

 

Thanks for the indept post Olderplayer you definetly broke down everything in a good way to really help me annylize this book to our soon to be old book. I agree with you on pretty much everything seeing all the negative posts on here made me concentrate on the negatives but not to much of the positives. Overall I'm excited for the new book ill never shelf Lizzie's EVER even if this book was a bomb. I still think it would be nice to have Loremaster generically on a Slann though I mean they are supposed to be THE most powerful wizards in the warhammer world and having loremaster reflects that IMO though that all 8 sig spells discipline seems mighty fine.

Speaking if wich does anyone know if the signature spell discipline stacks with picking spells in general? I know it dosent stack with Loremaster of High Magic but If I pick lore of life and roll for my spells can I take the signature discipline and still have my 4 LoL spells? If that's the case ill take the blow of losing loremaster less to heart

 

Wow I didn't even think of that, I just assumed it was the signature spells and nothing else. That would be insane.

 

I am 99% sure you still get to roll for spells as normal. In addition to having all the signatures.
Have to wait for the exact wording in the book ofc. But if there is nothing in the line of "instead of rolling for spells as normal" or something simular id say yes.