In GHB20 you will no longer be able to stack FNP saves ontop of each other. This wont really affect us outside of Kroak with his 4+ and Astrolith 6+. You will have to choose which FNP to use (obviously Kroak's 4+). This could be huge for stuff like Nagash though. It is also confirmed that there is a cap on the amount of endless spells you can bring. At 2.000 pts. you have 0-3 endless spells. This will certainly hit our heavy magic lists.
Same here. Most of our lists have 3 endless spells at the max anyway, and I'd rather take more troops than 5-6 endless spells, lol! Also, just realized that all the factions that have their own endless spells have 3, so at least this means that they can take all 3 of them.
I think pretty much every list with Kroak should have Balewind and Geminids, at least in Starborne. I have a couple of lists where I have either Purple Sun, Pendulum and/or Everblaze Comet. Quite a few of my lists have at least 4 Endless Spells. There are certainly lists with 5+ Endless Spells in Seraphon. I dont think it will be game breaking for us, but it will also hit other lists like Hollowheart and Tzeentch etc. so overall Im OK with it.
O goodie, another blanket change. Why can't they just nerf the specific edge cases like Nagash while leaving more minor and legitimate cases like Kroak with an Astrolith alone... meh, there's nothing inherently wrong with stacking them. But then GW needs to actually keep abusive cases in check and make sure that you can't say stack multiple good ward saves on a healing monster with a 4+ re-rolling normal save because they didn't bother to check for potential synergy... Well this is rather dissapointing. Not that it'l have much of an impact on 90% of all lists as most don't bring more than 3 anyway. But it's kind of dissapointing it's no longer allowed. It could make for some silly but fun lists. And I do wish the limit was slightly higher though, for example lists that rely on a balewind to empower a specific wizard, or need the bridge to be quick, have very few slots left with a maximum of only 3. I think they maybe shouldve put it on 4 or 5.
Kroak will be more than fine. He can still pass off wounds to Guards on a 2+ and use his own FNP save of a 4++. The difference between having a 6++ ontop of that is really not *that* big. Astrolith will still work on the Guards. Stuff like Nagash, Verminlord, Ardboyz etc. will feel it a lot more. I think the issue was that some lists specifically buildt their list around locking their opponent by walls of endless spells to buy a turn or two on the objectives for free. Sure they cost points, but it is extremely frustrating to play against, especially if you play an army without a Wizard to try and dispell them. It was my original idea with Starborne - Place the pyramide somewhere near an objective and cast bound endless spells that I would simply park to create a wall. Super negative play experience and lack of interaction, hence why I dropped the idea.
I'm not saying Kroak will be bad in any way cuz of this. I'm saying that Kroak with an astrolith is simply fine and didn't need to be nerfed, even if something like Nagash might need to. GW for some reason has a habit of nerfing mechanics, in AoS, across the board whenever people figure out a synergy that break things by just stacking the effect a couple of times, instead of reigning in only the problematic examples of excessive stacking. Sigh, honestly if that's the problem then with the exception the palisade & the gravetide they should just allow us to move through em, obviously with the caveat that it'l hurt. But that seems like a better solution than just reducing the number of spells you can bring.
Sadly that's how they have always done things. At first I thought it was a deliberate attempt to avoid future problems by changing the core rule that enabled it, but after playing their games for so long, I think it's laziness. Instead of taking the time to look at their game and god forbid playtest it, they just assume that it's broken everywhere and make grand sweeping changes. At least that's the impression I am constantly left with.
Yo so I'm late by a bit on this but can someone give me a lowdown on this hero thing. Like its legit create a character that would be allowed in tournaments or not enough info to say?
The website says it's essentially a sanctioned house rule, so probably won't ever be allowed in tournaments. Here's the exact wording: "For matched play, if you have your opponent’s or event organiser’s permission, you can include a custom hero in your army at a points cost of 10x the destiny points you spent on them. If you’re running an event, why not give it a go?*" "* Please note – this is a suggested house rule rather than an official ruling so if you don’t want to use custom heroes in your games, that’s fine too!"
it's essentially the system you use in 40K to pick a load-out for your units. Pay a base-cost, pay an additional cost to stick on a fancy gun or a banner or some such. Just with a bit more freedom. So in theory it should be perfectly legit for tournaments. Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if a significant chunk of the competitive community wants to ban it simply cuz they see "build your own hero" and their immeadiate reaction is to cry wolf. Mostly it'l depend on how well GW supports it, and what they themselves do to push it into matched play. Also, it'l depend on how much more powerfull you can get than the regular heroes. Especially the available options for spells & command abilities and the like need to be monitored carefully, lest they accidently give certain factions spells and abilities that result in broken synergies.
I think it will really depend on how crazy you can make a hero. Typically big hitters are riding a big monster, which inherits quite a few disadvantages. If you can suddenly make a really good caster/big hitter on a super mobile horse it might be a bit too strong. If it allows you to effectively make a "worse" (as in too costed for what you get compared to a standard guy) hero it could probably work. I realize we can tailor things already with artefacts, traits and spells etc., but I think there is beauty in being able to instantly recognize whatever is on the table. If heroes are new and use something completely different every game then it might be a bit iffy, I dont know. If you are just playing "casual games" with your mates while having a laugh, I dont see an issue with you creating your own thing.
Meh, it doesn't need to be worse, hell it's even fine if it's flat out better provided it comes at the appropriate cost. It only really becomes an issue if they allow you to make something that either provides ridiculous synergy, or provides a unit type this army isn't supposed to have. e.g. sticking a starpriest on a ripperdactyl, resulting in a ripperdactyl skink starchiefpriest should be perfectly balanced, even if it's better than either the regular starpriest or skink chief. However, giving a Khornate army a wizard, or a fyreslayer army an archer is already going to be problematic as it gives the army a hero they normally can't have at all. But GW does seem to be aware of that as they explicitly stated that for example a khornate wizard would be impossible. It's not as if most players will instantly recognize every official model anyway. Provided you use a representable model most people will probably manage. Maybe add in the caveat that a judge can disqualify you if your model is too weird. Also it's not like you can instantly recognize every variant of smash-captain and what have you in 40K either and people seem to manage there. In all honesty, as long as they don't go completly wild, and allow super overpowered builds or just plain weird stuff, like a Skink on foot who can somehow duel a bloodthirster, it should be perfectly fine.
Am I wrong, or the cap to which you can build your own hero, would be the equivalent of 400 pts? it shouldn't be possible to pump too much the custom warscroll...
My point was exactly that I would be OK if a self-made hero was arguably worse simply due to being overcosted as a result for the "heroforge system". I.e. you are doing it for the fun of it and taking a hit, not to purposely gain a massive advantage by doing some absurd combination you arent meant to have. In the example of Skinks, there is a reason they have bad saves and low wounds. If you could beef them up either way it could be a significant advantage which Im not OK with. Same if they suddenly have fly and significant movement increase. It would mess up some balance. I also think it would make balance in the future much harder since they need to account for all the absurd possibilities. I dont mean necesarry based on the actual looks on the table - But more stat wise. I know exactly how much damage I can expect from X, Y and Z. I dont care if you modelled your Carnosaur with a different head etc., it is still a Carnosaur, but it doesnt suddenly have 5 heads on the table and can deal significantly more spiky damage.
If you look at current models, for 400 pts you can get a beast with a serious impact on the table though. Especially if you slap on certain artefacts ontop. Maybe if whatever you created was counted as a unique hero it would be much better. That way you ensure command trait or artefact, should be able to reel in some of the crazy combinations.
My point is that it doesn't need to be "worse" or overcost. It's fine if it provides an advantage compared to the regular heroes you have. There's only 2 major caveats (aside from having the point costs be balanced of course) 1) Don't provide a unit type that they normally don't have (e.g. don't give Khorne wizards and don't give Fyreslayers mobile or ranged stuff) 2) Be very carefull with the types of abilities you allow them to have so you don't accidently end up giving them broken synergy with the rest of the army. E.g. don't give the necromancer hero a super powerfull, but difficult spell, and then be surprised when he's used as a vehicle purely to give that spell to Nagash. Sticking a starpriest on a ripperdactyl, although a significant advantage thanks to flying, should be more than fine. Hell, mechanicly you can already do that with the cloak of feathers. All that's needed is just to make the starpriest say a 130-150 points instead of a 120. Even the added combat prowess shouldn't raise any issues at that pricepoint. Similarly, a starpriest with an extra wound or two, or a 4+ save instead of the puny 5+ shouldn't be gamebreaking provided it comes with a slight bump in pointcost. In contrast, sticking a skink on a flying monster who can easily beat a terrorgheist into submission probably would be problematic as that means giving us a monster that far outclasses everything else we have. And chances are that's going to be too much when combined with all our potential buffs, even if it is appropriatly costed at 400 points. Allowing freedom definitly makes things more complicated. But they seem to manage with the loadouts in 40K. So it's not impossible. Unless you have an absolutly godlike memory I'd find that questionable. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you can remember "X will annihilate MSU units of skinks" or "Y should be tarpitted by ~20 bodies, at least for a turn or two". But beyond that I find it unlikely you know the exact output of every unit in the game, let alone when also having to take into account potential synergies of what's on the table & damage tables. It always remains ballpark figures, and for that rules of thumb like "big healthy monster will do loads of damage, wounded monster will do somewhat less damage" and "hordes of 40 models will stab me a lot" should already give you enough to work with. Having said that, these heroes do need to fall within certain bandwiths. A custom hero on a behemoth should do say an average of 20-30 wounds in combat against a 5+ save, with a melee focused hero being on the high end and a wizard focused hero on the low end. Not have a wildly insane bandwith like 0-30 depending on the exact loadout (fyi, numbers are completly arbitrary). If that bandwidth gets too wide you do indeed get the problem you've mentioned. fyi, the most expensive behemoth I can think of is one of those Ghoul kings on terrorgheist at 440 points. At least if you ignore forgeworld stuff. So you can still get something top tier.