Well someday when they decide to actually write the part where we win and it's not just chaos doing what chaos does then I will say you were right. But until then it merely looks like we did a triple back flip and landed ass first on a rake, then proceeded to shoot ourselves in each foot and then turn to the camera and say I meant to do that.
I totally understand, we're not the heroes or main characters. I just wish that GW would actually get to a part where we actually accomplish something and the victory gets explained rather than just a bunch of bad stuff happening and them trying to say "it's ok, it's all part of the plan." That method of storytelling only pays off if the plan actually works in the end. And since this is an ongoing game setting they *need* to have victories in-between, not just at the end when they decide to axe the setting like they did to Fantasy. (Where we got shafted as well, due to to extreme plot contrivances because GW knew that the Lizardmen were too powerful. Same thing keeps happening in AoS) I guess you have to be careful what you wish for. After years of doing nothing in the setting they decide that when we do show up it's to further Chaos' plans and not to stop them... The problem I have with how things went down in Be'lakor was that our goal was explained, but what we did ended up accomplishing the exact opposite. We wanted to stop Eater of Tomes from finding out how to break into Azyr and preventing Stormcast souls from returning. What happened in the end was Be'lakor now knows how to break into Azyr and he's stopping the Stormcast souls from returning. There's no way that can be called a win unless GW adds more to the story and explains that when things finally go right it was because of the Seraphon's plan. Which may still happen in Kragnos, who knows? I'm still interesting in finding out. Hopefully we don't get shafted as hard rules-wise with the rumored new edition as much as we're getting in the lore right now
Worth noting that this is 50 pages of Seraphon content, a big chunk of which will be fluff like with all Soulbound stuff. This is 100% going to give us the first on the ground look into how temple cities/ships are organized, society etc. Its also written by KC Shi who wrote Refuges of the Realms (an amazing suppliment for fluff alone, that features a traveling Seraphon Ziggurat that’s effectively a hotel, warping around the realms to give respite to people important to the great plan, whether they’re Order figures of note, or even something like Chaos worshippers so incompetent they’ll one day ruin a major plan) so it’s guaranteed to have a lot of fun stuff in it, probably more on Seraphon life than we’ve gotten in anything else outside of our battletome. (please pay me cubicle7, my rates for gushing over your product are reasonable)
I will be getting this book just for this content, lol! If it looks interesting, it might even get me interested in playing Soulbound sometime.
There are a few victories discussed in our Battletome. In order: The campaigns of the Seraphon bought Sigmar the time he needed to evacuate so many mortals to Azyr. Koatl's Claw annihilated a Pestilins Conclave chasing a Wanderer kinband, rescuing them (Then annihilate the kinband, yes. Count this event as either 0 or 2 victories) Dracothian's Tail lures an Orruk Warclan and Khornate legion into each other in Ghyran, then destroys the remnants, rescuing extremely important Sylvaneth soulpods Starmaster Xen'phantica's constellation fights to the last to save Alarielle's soulpod from Skarbrand himself. Xen'phantica singlehandedly banishes Skarbrand and saves Alarielle. Though they all die, by Xen'phantica's planning, his Constellation (and possibly he himself as well, it's unclear) is resurrected. In the Banewoods of Penultima, three Seraphon constellations enact a gargantuan battle against Chaos and Death which had been prepared for since the Age of Myth (by uplifting certain tribes and having them build arcane monoliths). They battle long enough to supercharge the monoliths and completely obliterate the legions of both Chaos and Death, completely dissipating them. As well: "across the realms, many such victories are won as the Seraphon strike back..." This may not be as much as people want, but credit where it's due, it's definitely not nothing. Some of these are pretty damn significant and suitably awesome
not sure i would call fighting a delaying tactic that leads to a melenia of chaos rule a victory more loosing well but ok yeah no total failure of stated goal if you kill the people that you are trying to save that is not a victory both of the above are part of the Xen'phantica conflict(along with one of the first books stories), and it is confirmed in the same book that he and his entire faction are dead and do not come back. we have a minor victory that we do not fight in and ultimately fail. scarbrand is still around Xen'phantica is not. this one is in our second book but i don't have it with me ill get back to you. but with all the "many such victories" that are won it's strange that most of book two is talking about us doing badly. what with the loss of one of our fleets and the crippling of a slann leading to Koatl's Claw being the big stand outs. i mean one of those might count yes. the other 2 are a major embarrassment and failure . followed by 2 minor skirmish wins that leave a starhost dead and gone. i do like the fall of Xen but i'm not sure i would call that a victory, more like a heroic last stand.
They did what they set out to do. Saved the mortal people. Had the Seraphon not acted, perhaps Sigmar wouldn't have had the manpower to break the Age of Chaos at all. In that sense, you might say the Seraphon caused the end of the Age of Chaos just as it began. I think that's a major victory. (And a super cool thought ) Even if Sigmar still could've broken out, the Seraphon saved uncounted lives. Maybe millions, based on the size of the realms. Well, I mean, it's Koatl's Claw. The goal is "Get off my lawn" at best and "Kill everything" at worst. From either of those perspectives: Flawless Victory. Maybe not for Order, but certainly for a Seraphon army. Hmm, are you sure? The Orc/Khorne battle was in the Age of Chaos and doesn't mention Xen. Xen's battle with Skarbrand was in the Age of Sigmar. At least in the second book, which is the one I'm looking at. Either way, the second book definitely confirms that Xen'phantica's hosts were resurrected back into existence. I can't tell if he was among them or not, but his constellation lives for sure. Under "Temporal Vengeance" p21. But, even if *he's* dead, Alarielle lives thanks to him, and his constellation was not lost. I count that as an absolute win. It is in the second book. I believe the quote about "many such victories" refers to Seraphon counterattacks after the Necroquake, achieved in similar fashion as the one at the Banewoods. I dunno, man. I really really see about 5 victories by the Seraphon in two pages of lore. At least 2 of those victories were probably "save the world" level victories gifted to Order by the Seraphon (save Azyr, save Alarielle).
The issue is that we pretty much exclusivly get phyrric victories & most of them aren't Seraphon victories, they're victories for Order at extreme cost to the seraphon. Pretty much all of them can be summarized as either "The seraphon got wiped to the last man out yet again, but thanks to their efforts X was protected/saved. And X is super important." Of course they rarely explain why X is important to begin with. Or as "Powerfull chaos lord X essentially achieved what he wanted, but this is all according to the great plan". Which again they basicly never explain how or why this fits in with the great plan. We need to have more stories where they either explain why this seemingly horrible loss fits in the great plan or where the seraphon actually convincingly win for once. Victories that are actually shown. Instead of getting throw away lines about "many such victories" in various fluff pieces. Instead of the constant stream of "victories" where entire constelations are wiped out and/or our opponent gets basicly exactly what he wants anyway. It's not that hard. And honestly it's kinda weird that Yeah that 3D6 alone already looks super frustrating to face... at least it's in line with the nonsense other gods have I guess... Also, ugly model.. especially on its own. It looks so out of place.. The vampire models are.. odd? They're pretty much all named ones, and none of them even begin to resemble the current vampires. So are they replacing the current vampire heroes? In addition to? Why are they so different?
I can bet, he will be Gotrek 2.0. Very strong and hard to kill, but if you actually want to win, you won't be wasting points on him. Maybe, gobbos will benifit, since they don't have much heavy hitters. Maybe, BCR too, since their playstyle is already similar.
right "all according to plan" only works as a story beat when you see the pay off and can work your way back threw the steps it took to get there. you can only wiggle your fingers and say wooooo plaaaaaan for so long and it's not a justification for poor behavior. on a different note. since when did the slann have such a good handle on the great plan? if we forget the fact that the great plan stopped mattering when the world it applied to died, the slann where never certain of what it called for. each slann was convinced the GP worked the way he thought it did to the point where they had massive disagreements or changed their minds completely. heck masdamundi(kroaks protege) is well known for having a uncommon view on what the GP was.
Within couple weeks is the assumed timeframe, since it’s all finished writing editing etc and the official word is just “keep an eye out for it, it’s soon” . Soulbound releases only happen on Mondays, though, so it’s nailed down a lot
I fear we are going down to Tzeentch's route. "that was a major loss" "it was the desired result, part of a grand scheme" "your plan that was lasting a thousand year has been discovered" "they discovered only the decoy plan, not the real one" "i need to go to the bathroom" "exactly as planned" it quickly becomes boring.
I'm wondering if Morthai-Khaine's "we must redirect" line will be us sending Kragnos to party with Be'lakor. THAT would be fun.
This is essentially true outside our Battletome. But, at least in the second tome, none of the victories I'm discussing end up being phyrric with the exception of Xen'phantica's war. But even that one...not really because his constellation gets time-warped back into existence. Plus, none of those specific victories in the second book actually mention the Great Plan, so it's not a Tzeenchian "just as planned" trope in these cases. Again excepting Xen'phantica sacrificing his constellation to save Alarielle, knowing it'd be back. But I actually think that's really cool and shows the foresight of a Slann. But even that event is still doesn't mention the Great Plan. I think it's important to see things as bad as they are, but not worse. The rumor that we've never won, or never won except phyrrically, just isn't true or fair. And another Seraphon victory we can add to the list was the one explained to me in this thread where Kroak slams the door on Nurgle himself and dunks on an entire Chaos host single handedly before rearranging the stars to draw a frog lol So I tally 6 wins of a non phyrric nature. I reckon you guys can tally the losses. I think that's a good bet! Still strikes me odd that Morathi wants to work with Kroak on this, but I'm interested